He's Stable!

[Water Bob]

Let's talk a moment about stablizing a character when that character is near death, in the -1 to -9 hit point range.

The rules state that the dying character has a 10% chance to stablize each round on his own. An ally can also try to stabilize the character, one try per round, at a DC 15 Heal check.



QUESTON 1: Does a dying character get the self stabilization check AND the First Aid check in the same round?

For example, if Tarl is dying, at -3 HP, do we first check to see if he self stabilizes with the 10% check, and if he doesn't, then we move on to the First Aid check in the same round?

Or, are these two checks exclusive of each other--meaning, if a comrade is attempting First Aid to stabilize the charcter the self-stable 10% check is not made.

What do you think the rules intend?







QUESTION 2: I'm wondering how long it should take for a person to stabilize a patient. Certainly, it takes longer than 6 seconds.

What's really happening when a dying character is being "stabilized"? The bleeding is being stopped, mainly, I would guess. A bandage or tourniquet is applyed to a wound. The patient is made comfortable. He's given some water. Maybe pressure is placed on the wound, too. Maybe an arrow is pulled out of the victim's body. Wounds are washed with water or wine. That kind of stuff.

It's stuff that you can't do in 6 seconds. It takes longer.

I would, of course, allow the aiding character an immediate Heal Check in an attempt to stop the hit point loss on the victim--this strictly for mechanical purposes. But, I'd make the character stay engaged in helping the downed victim no matter the outcome of the roll. In effect, we're rolling the outcome before the helping character has spent the time to help the victim.

So, the question is: If a character commits to providing first aid to a downed character, then how long does it take to provide First Aid?

 

[JamesonCourage]

Question 1: I believe both are intended to take place each round (the stabilization check and the Heal check).

Question 2: I think it'll vary depending on the wound. I'm not trained enough in first aid to accurately answer it.

 

[Jack Simth]

Let's talk a moment about stablizing a character when that character is near death, in the -1 to -9 hit point range.

The rules state that the dying character has a 10% chance to stablize each round on his own. An ally can also try to stabilize the character, one try per round, at a DC 15 Heal check.



QUESTON 1: Does a dying character get the self stabilization check AND the First Aid check in the same round?

For example, if Tarl is dying, at -3 HP, do we first check to see if he self stabilizes with the 10% check, and if he doesn't, then we move on to the First Aid check in the same round?

Or, are these two checks exclusive of each other--meaning, if a comrade is attempting First Aid to stabilize the charcter the self-stable 10% check is not made.

What do you think the rules intend?

As written, they are not incompatible. Further, as written, there's nothing stopping ten people from attempting first aid to the same person in one round. The Death's Door rules were originally an optional rule to make life easier on DM's and players alike (not needing to re-roll / integrate a new character into the game), and have since been imported into the base set over the course of a few edition transitions.

The intent is that you get your roll, and others can also make rolls.

QUESTION 2: I'm wondering how long it should take for a person to stabilize a patient. Certainly, it takes longer than 6 seconds.

What's really happening when a dying character is being "stabilized"? The bleeding is being stopped, mainly, I would guess. A bandage or tourniquet is applyed to a wound. The patient is made comfortable. He's given some water. Maybe pressure is placed on the wound, too. Maybe an arrow is pulled out of the victim's body. Wounds are washed with water or wine. That kind of stuff.

It's stuff that you can't do in 6 seconds. It takes longer.

I would, of course, allow the aiding character an immediate Heal Check in an attempt to stop the hit point loss on the victim--this strictly for mechanical purposes. But, I'd make the character stay engaged in helping the downed victim no matter the outcome of the roll. In effect, we're rolling the outcome before the helping character has spent the time to help the victim.

So, the question is: If a character commits to providing first aid to a downed character, then how long does it take to provide First Aid?

You're in house rule territory here. First Aid is a standard action as written. You quickly attempt to staunch the bleeding, and then duck the next fireball. It actually takes *less* than six seconds.

Of course, this is in a world where, even without magic, you can go from almost dying of a wound (-9 hp, say) to perfectly fine with just a few days' bed rest (full rest: 2 hp per hit die per day - a 1st level barbarian with a Con of 20 has 17 hp; from -9 to 17 is only 26 hp, taking 13 days with full rest; 7, with long-term care ... and that's really the worst-cast scenario. A Con-6 Wizard-1 can go from -9 to his full 2 hp in much less time than that)

Mind you, I don't think the first aid rules were added for the purposes of simulationism, which seems to be the approach you're taking.

 

[anest1s]

Let's talk a moment about stablizing a character when that character is near death, in the -1 to -9 hit point range.

The rules state that the dying character has a 10% chance to stablize each round on his own. An ally can also try to stabilize the character, one try per round, at a DC 15 Heal check.



QUESTON 1: Does a dying character get the self stabilization check AND the First Aid check in the same round?

For example, if Tarl is dying, at -3 HP, do we first check to see if he self stabilizes with the 10% check, and if he doesn't, then we move on to the First Aid check in the same round?

Or, are these two checks exclusive of each other--meaning, if a comrade is attempting First Aid to stabilize the charcter the self-stable 10% check is not made.

What do you think the rules intend?







QUESTION 2: I'm wondering how long it should take for a person to stabilize a patient. Certainly, it takes longer than 6 seconds.

What's really happening when a dying character is being "stabilized"? The bleeding is being stopped, mainly, I would guess. A bandage or tourniquet is applyed to a wound. The patient is made comfortable. He's given some water. Maybe pressure is placed on the wound, too. Maybe an arrow is pulled out of the victim's body. Wounds are washed with water or wine. That kind of stuff.

It's stuff that you can't do in 6 seconds. It takes longer.

I would, of course, allow the aiding character an immediate Heal Check in an attempt to stop the hit point loss on the victim--this strictly for mechanical purposes. But, I'd make the character stay engaged in helping the downed victim no matter the outcome of the roll. In effect, we're rolling the outcome before the helping character has spent the time to help the victim.

So, the question is: If a character commits to providing first aid to a downed character, then how long does it take to provide First Aid?

Well...when you heal someone to get rid of the poison, both the healing check and the fort save apply...but lets think if its logical.

I am bleeding...and I have a 10% chance to stop bleeding by myself.
Then someone tries to help me stop bleeding, by applying bandages etc.
I won't be able to stop bleeding, because with his shaking hands the bandage fell on the ground and rolled away? No. So, a logical solution would be to have both apply.

Providing first aid, treating a wound, or treating poison is a standard action.

I agree, because you don't heal him, you stop the blood from flowing. If its longer than full round action, applying a potion will be faster. Probably its a standard action, so the PC can move close and heal at the same round.

It really isn't all that things you say. Its hastily applying first aid. Medieval first aid to be precise. Applying a bandage is probably all you do. What you describe is long term care. Its for after the battle.

 

[Greenfield]

I'd take exception to the idea that 10 people can try at once. Once per round means exactly that.

Now, several people can work on the wounded character, but those count as Aid Another attempts to assist the primary care giver. At least, that's the rule at my table.

 

[anest1s]

I'd take exception to the idea that 10 people can try at once. Once per round means exactly that.

Now, several people can work on the wounded character, but those count as Aid Another attempts to assist the primary care giver. At least, that's the rule at my table.

An ally can try once per round. Two allies can't try once per round each?

I understand your way of thought, but I think that when the rules aren't clear, the PCs should get the benefit of having the rule work in a favorable way.

After all, having a PC dead because I didn't allow two checks...would be lame (especially since they pay with ''wasting'' actions anyway)

 

[Greenfield]

How would 10 people work on the same wound, all in one round? There are only 8 surrounding squares for them to be in.

On the other hand, one person dressing a wound while 4 others assist gives a +8 Aid Another bonus, which all but guarantees success.

Even among 1st level characters, a 15 isn't that hard to achieve with a bit of teamwork.

 

[anest1s]

How would 10 people work on the same wound, all in one round? There are only 8 surrounding squares for them to be in.

On the other hand, one person dressing a wound while 4 others assist gives a +8 Aid Another bonus, which all but guarantees success.

Even among 1st level characters, a 15 isn't that hard to achieve with a bit of teamwork.

Well...if he is at -9...a natural 1 would hurt

 

[Jack Simth]

How would 10 people work on the same wound, all in one round? There are only 8 surrounding squares for them to be in.

Presumably, two of them are flying. It's surprisingly common in D&D.

 

[Dandu]

Add in another two if burrowing is an option. And maybe a few more of there are friendly ghosts?