High Level NPC Class characters: What's your take on them?

[AFGNCAAP]

Here's something I've been wondering about.

How often do you use or see high-level NPCs with levels in nothing except an NPC class (adept, aristocrat, commoner, expert, or warrior)? It seems that such occurences would be, at the very least, rare, if even present at all, especially considering that high-level NPCs are more likely to have levels in a (PC) character class &/or prestige classes.

For example, how often would you encounter a 20th-level Adept? Or a 20th-level Warrior? (I can feasibly see high level Experts, Commoners, and Aristocrats, but the other 2 classes seem like they'd be overshadowed by Fighters & Clerics/Druids.) Or, for that matter, how often would you ever encounter a character with an NPC class level in the double digits?

One of the reasons why I started thinking about this is because I started to work on local NPCs for my Forgotten Realms campaign. One of the NPCs is a female moon elf adept (who worships/pays respects to Eldath). Now, I considered her for a future source of raise dead and heal spells for the PCs (if they had the cash), but in order for her to cast those spells, she'd have to be at least 17th+ level as an adept. I wasn't too sure if this would be that viable, esp. since a lower-level cleric could perform these tasks as well. I want to keep this character an Adept (I like using the NPC classes for NPCs, to differentiate the feel of power between the PCs and NPCs), but I really didn't see how feasible this could be in a place like the Forgotten Realms (or Greyhawk or most other settings, for that matter).

What's y'alls take on this?

 

[painandgreed]

One thought I've been having is that such NPC classes can "train up" to other classes. Thus, a 3rd level warrior who finally gets the money can get proper training and become a 3rd level fighter. This is why you don't see a great deal of multi classed or even high classed NPC classes out there. Essentially, the NPC classes are just regular classes without proper training. They are a great person who has the capacity but has never really been given the chance to do all they could do. Not sure exactly how that would work for all classes but its been an idea I've been toying with.

 

[Blue]

Hmm, the FR is a special case because of the large numebr of high level folk. If NPC classes can go epic, FR is the place I'd expect to see them.

Frankly, IMC, it takes bona fide XP to advance in a PC class, but just time and effort (without such risk) to advance in the NPC classes. Now, my campaign is also lower level (13th level PCs are probably int he top 100 most individually powerful citizens.), but I could easily see a 17+ level elven adept, adn my my logic she's been practicign for 300 years, and has never if ever gone adventuring or do particularly dangerous things.

I've also had cases like the retired knight who was paladin 9/aristocrat 2 - he started picking up NPC class levels after he gave up doing grand deeds.

Cheers,
Blue

 

[Baron Opal]

In my campaign, the NPC calsses only run up to 10th level. Most "everyday" people aren't able to go beyond 10th level and most peasants are 3rd level commoners, experts, what have you. Since old Father Brennan is a 6th level expert and my John Chisum look alike is a 9th level commoner, I've found levels beyond 10th to be superfluous. PC classes, are a different matter, of course.

 

[airwalkrr]

I usually simply follow the guidelines in the DMG for NPC class levels in a given community. Therefore, if you world is urbanized enough, it will probably have advanced to the point where 20th-level NPCs with NPC classes are possible. For example, in a metropolis, it's possible to find up to a 28th-level Commoner. Such a character would probably be an elder and widely respected in the community, probably also either an important representative in a city's oligarchy or the leader of the most infamous beggar's union known to man. 24th-level Experts and 20th-level Warriors are also possible. Adept and Aristocrat seem limited to 18th-level and 16th-level respectively but you are by no means bound by this. For that matter, you could have a 20th-level Adept dwelling in a thorp as long as you have some kind of justification for it. It's your campaign after all. I created an 18th-level Expert for the city of Greyhawk, a dwarven weaponsmith who makes the finest axeheads in the land. Each of his blades has a 5% chance of having some special property, such as lowering the damage reduced by hardness on all attacks by 2.

 

[Kwitchit]

I really don't see the point of Warrior and Adept. I just use Fighters and Clerics/ Sorcerers.

 

[Psion]

I have a general rule that no character will have more than 10 levels in NPC classes. Beyond that, it just seems to me like the point of NPC classes is lost. Once you are 10th level, you are clearly not ordinary anymore.

I don't use adept either. If you cast spells, you are also not ordinary.

 

[Garboshnik]

After a certain point, why not just use lower-level PC classes instead of NPC classes? There's not much reason for them to go past 10 IMHO.

 

[Eternalknight]

I am like those who have the NPC classes only go to level 10, except that mine only go to level 5. I occasioally break this rule, but NEVER break it for commoners.

 

[SgtHulka]

Frankly, IMC, it takes bona fide XP to advance in a PC class, but just time and effort (without such risk) to advance in the NPC classes.

Blue

I like that take. But I'd broaden it even more -- experience comes from very different activities than it does for adventurers. For an Expert, maybe it comes from study and practice. For a commoner, maybe they get X experience every time they bring in a successful crop, more for when they are faced with challenging weather. A Noble might receive XP's for amassing wealth, prestige or political power. And an Adept for establishing shrines or churches to her deity.

You don't have to strictly define it, since they're NPC's, but as Blue points out once you think that they're experience progression is different, it becomes a little more reasonable to have high (ish) level NPC classes out and about.

And, personally, I just find it simpler to have NPC's that are challenging for the PC's. As realistic as it may be, I don't like my Prince to be a Level 1 Noble that the characters can cut down in the street with a blowgun dart. I like him to be a Level 10 Noble which, if using Blue's idea and he's been in power for a long time, is justifiable.

But that's just personal style.

In a role-play heavy campaign it mght be interesting to allow PC's to pick up NPC class levels this way. Fifth-level adventurers could establish themselves as advisors to a local ruler and pick up levels as Noble, for example, or set up an Inn and start picking up levels as Expert between "adventures". Or a pious Monk working humbly in the fields and picking up levels of Commoner.