D&D 5E (2024) How 2024 design interacts with class features and resources (poorly)

[Gladius Legis]

So, in regards to two arguments made here...

• Did Lay on Hands need to be a bonus action?

Yes. It absolutely did. Paladin is supposed to be a class that can both frontline damage and support, and that concept only works well when you can reliably do both on the same turn.

The 2024 version of the class with Lay on Hands a BA fulfills this concept much better than the 2014 version did.

 

[rabirin]

Yes. It absolutely did. Paladin is supposed to be a class that can both frontline damage and support, and that concept only works well when you can reliably do both on the same turn.

The 2024 version of the class with Lay on Hands a BA fulfills this concept much better than the 2014 version did.

No, it doesn't require the ability to do both on the same turn whatsoever. Having the option to heal or attack doesn't somehow erase either option, just because you want a lazier game.

 

[Gladius Legis]

No, it doesn't require the ability to do both on the same turn whatsoever. Having the option to heal or attack doesn't somehow erase either option, just because you want a lazier game.

Yes it does, because it's the concept of the class. The ability to do both and do it at an A-grade level at the same time. As opposed to the Fighter who attacks at an S-grade level, but can't heal anyone other than themselves the same turn, or the Cleric who heals at an S-grade level but gives up attacking to do so. (Or heals at an A-grade level with Healing Word and then gets to attack or cast a cantrip ... hey, same as the Paladin except Healing Word has range!)

 

[Neonchameleon]

Yes it does, because it's the concept of the class. The ability to do both and do it at an A-grade level at the same time. As opposed to the Fighter who attacks at an S-grade level, but can't heal anyone other than themselves the same turn, or the Cleric who heals at an S-grade level but gives up attacking to do so. (Or heals at an A-grade level with Healing Word and then gets to attack or cast a cantrip ... hey, same as the Paladin except Healing Word has range!)

It depends what you want; there is a reasonable range between not-quite-a-fighter with a little healing and not-quite-a-cleric with extra attack. But I agree that lay on hands should be a bonus action especially with 2024 buffed healing.

 

[Horwath]

Then I'm very glad you're not deciding what options every person playing the game should be allowed to have.

I've had the joy of dropping a much-needed Mass Cure Wounds in an intense battle and keeping everyone in the fight. If that's something you don't care about, maybe just don't take that option for yourself.

it's still boring maintenance job.

to me it's more fun to throw a tanglefoot bag at a goblin shaman as an Action instead of 9th level mass cure spell.

 

[rabirin]

Yes it does, because it's the concept of the class. The ability to do both and do it at an A-grade level at the same time. As opposed to the Fighter who attacks at an S-grade level, but can't heal anyone other than themselves the same turn, or the Cleric who heals at an S-grade level but gives up attacking to do so. (Or heals at an A-grade level with Healing Word and then gets to attack or cast a cantrip ... hey, same as the Paladin except Healing Word has range!)

Again: no reasonable person who doesn't want to be flat-out better than everyone else in terms of action economy thinks that you cease to have healing features as part of your class if you don't get to do so as a bonus action.

But reasonable people aren't the target audience of 2024 5e, and so a Paladin that can throw out three attacks in a turn at level 5, heal as a BA, and still activate a Channel Divinity without using any action at all (which you get significantly more uses of because Paladins definitely need it). Paladins just get to have better action economy simply because they just get to be better, and it's your own fault if you pick a worse class.

 

[Gladius Legis]

But reasonable people aren't the target audience of 2024 5e

Well, if you're going to be this insulting about things ...

P.S. Lay on Hands is still touch range. Depending on how much movement you have or don't have, or whether you want to risk drawing an Attack of Opportunity, you still may not get to use it on an ally on your turn. LoH is still not Healing Word.

 

[Neonchameleon]

it's still boring maintenance job.

to me it's more fun to throw a tanglefoot bag at a goblin shaman as an Action instead of 9th level mass cure spell.

Ironically to me the problem is it's too easy and too plentiful. A risky limited resource heal you need to work for is always more interesting than just Healing Word.

 

[Tigris]

Yes. It absolutely did. Paladin is supposed to be a class that can both frontline damage and support, and that concept only works well when you can reliably do both on the same turn.

The 2024 version of the class with Lay on Hands a BA fulfills this concept much better than the 2014 version did.

Having a (weak) heal as a full action, just slows things down and is boring for most people. This is not some new knowledge, this is known since 3.5 which is why in 4e most healing was bonus action.

And also in 5E healing word as a bonus action was way more often used than main action healing for this reason.




For me 5.5 is a clear improvement overall. As neonchameleon said the floor for characters is a lot higher, while some ceiling may be nerfed which is fine. Best example for this is the rogue, who gets now weapon mastery which significantly increases the floor, but cannot any longer do his class feature in their turn + as a reaction which lowers the ceiling.


Also I personally dont see an issue when a ressource gets multiple uses, this means there will be a choice. Thats the same with spell slots. If second wind can only heal you, then there is never a choice involved, you use it as soon as you lost some health. Now maybe you want to use it at a different time to also use the movement.

 

[ECMO3]

Really if you get down to it the biggest issue with the 2024 rules are the weapon masteries. They slowed down the combat part of the game a lot. The next biggest issue is Inspiration and the numerous ways to reroll d20 checks, this similarly slows down the game.