How do population distribution patterns of Supers with different strength level affect their internal power relations?

[Anonym]

This topic continues from this previous topic: What would it be like if supers, who were solitary and territorial at begining, gradually organized themselves into a society/circle/organization?

Simply put, on a certain day (let's say 1999), approximately one million individuals around the world suddenly awakened various superpowers with various strength level. Initially, (most of ) them were pretty weak, nothing more than somekind of badass magicians,but after about 10 years, they became far more stronger, more organized, and more aware of their political and military value.

which one stronger while two Supers fight against each other is highly ambiguous. unless their strength is significantly greater, it's difficult to predict who would win in a fight.

how powerful of a Super individual depends on many factors. For ease of measurement, we here simplify it here with a vague "strength level," representing how powerful a super is. regardless of their specific powery, the weakest individual (strength level 1) can only fight and kill a squad of soldiers, while the most powerful individual (strength level 9) can eliminate an entire infantry battalion—they are not incredible powerful, and even the most powerful individual is far from the might of Magneto or Superman.

theoretically, we assumed each increase in strength level increases their overall strength by 25% compared to the weakest. for example, a strength level 2 super is about 1.25 times stronger than a strength lv 1 super, while a strength lv 9 super would be 7.45 times stronger.

based on the strength of their superpowers, individuals are divided into nine levels. below two different patterns that represent the distribution of individuals of different strengths within the entire global supers population.

Pattern A: (This distribution pattern forms a smooth pyramid diagram)

37.5% of individuals, Strength Level 1

25.5% of individuals, Strength Level 2

11.57% of individuals, Strength Level 3

9.72% of individuals, Strength Level 4

6.94% of individuals, Strength Level 5

4.63% of individuals, Strength Level 6

2.78% of individuals, Strength Level 7

1.39% of individuals, Strength Level 8

0.46% of individuals, Strength Level 9


Pattern B: (This distribution pattern forms a stepped pyramid diagram, or similar to a ziggurat)

50% of individuals, Strength Level 1

25% of individuals, Strength Level 2

12.5% of individuals, Strength Level 3

6.25% of individuals, Strength Level 4

3.2% of individuals, Strength Level 5

1.6% of individuals, Strength Level 6

0.8% of individuals, Strength Level 7

0.4% of individuals, Strength Level 8

0.15% of individuals, Strength Level 9


The topic here is:
a clear power dynamic MAY lead to a more strict and rigid hierarchy organization model, while the pattern that favors the weaker supers will result in more internal competition. so which pattern is more likely to lead to which situation or organization model?

 

[Reynard]

Interesting.

I think the power level of the supers would more impact their relationship to people: both individuals, and to states that want to utilize them. Since supers are not godlike in this scenario, we can guess that states can control all but the most powerful supers, either through force or indoctrination or simply buying them off. And if we assume supers' abilities are most useful for "punching things" then the use for those supers under state control would be misery and/or espionage related. At that point, supers become primarily another aspect of international arms races.

 

[Deset Gled]

This topic continues from this previous topic: What would it be like if supers, who were solitary and territorial at begining, gradually organized themselves into a society/circle/organization?

Simply put, on a certain day (let's say 1999), approximately one million individuals around the world suddenly awakened various superpowers with various strength level. Initially, (most of ) them were pretty weak, nothing more than somekind of badass magicians,but after about 10 years, they became far more stronger, more organized, and more aware of their political and military value.

...

The topic here is:
a clear power dynamic MAY lead to a more strict and rigid hierarchy organization model, while the pattern that favors the weaker supers will result in more internal competition. so which pattern is more likely to lead to which situation or organization model?

Personally, I find that the casual fascism in these fantasies feels really icky. I don't take part in as much super hero stuff as I used, to, but all the ones I like still generally have things like democracy, a separation of military and political power, and even fantasy governments that are based off of things like economics, philosophy, morality, or geography. Maybe that's just me.

 

[jian]

Personally, I find that the casual fascism in these fantasies feels really icky. I don't take part in as much super hero stuff as I used, to, but all the ones I like still generally have things like democracy, a separation of military and political power, and even fantasy governments that are based off of things like economics, philosophy, morality, or geography. Maybe that's just me.

No, I definitely agree. I certainly don’t think that casual authoritarianism or caste society or anything along those lines is necessarily where people would end up in these situations, and it’s very icky when combined with the power fantasy component of such settings.

Also, defining power levels by how many people you can kill on a good day rather than how much effect you can have on society in other ways (how many people can you feed? How much electricity can you generate? How many houses can you build? How many societies can you change for the better?) is honestly both very weird and disturbing and a very poor measure of power. Someone who can sustainably accelerate plant growth or remove climate change can’t kill any soldiers but is going to have an unprecedented effect on the destiny of human civilisation.

A different and maybe more useful measure may be:

1. Can affect at most a few hundred people’s lives in a year with your powers, for better or for worse.
2. Can affect a few thousand.
3. Can affect tens of thousands.
4. Can affect hundreds of thousands.
5. Can affect millions.
6. Can affect tens of millions, basically entire medium-sized nations.
7. Can affect hundreds of millions.
8. Can affect billions, basically entire continents.
9. Will irrevocably change the lives of everyone on Earth.
10. Will alter the course of human destiny for centuries to come.

Note that super-strength, for instance, no matter how vast, is probably never going to reach even level 3 unless it occurs alongside a complementary power such as flight, precognition, or teleportation.

 

[Anonym]

No, I definitely agree. I certainly don’t think that casual authoritarianism or caste society or anything along those lines is necessarily where people would end up in these situations, and it’s very icky when combined with the power fantasy component of such settings.

Also, defining power levels by how many people you can kill on a good day rather than how much effect you can have on society in other ways (how many people can you feed? How much electricity can you generate? How many houses can you build? How many societies can you change for the better?) is honestly both very weird and disturbing and a very poor measure of power. Someone who can sustainably accelerate plant growth or remove climate change can’t kill any soldiers but is going to have an unprecedented effect on the destiny of human civilisation.

A different and maybe more useful measure may be:

1. Can affect at most a few hundred people’s lives in a year with your powers, for better or for worse.
2. Can affect a few thousand.
3. Can affect tens of thousands.
4. Can affect hundreds of thousands.
5. Can affect millions.
6. Can affect tens of millions, basically entire medium-sized nations.
7. Can affect hundreds of millions.
8. Can affect billions, basically entire continents.
9. Will irrevocably change the lives of everyone on Earth.
10. Will alter the course of human destiny for centuries to come.

Note that super-strength, for instance, no matter how vast, is probably never going to reach even level 3 unless it occurs alongside a complementary power such as flight, precognition, or teleportation.

Violence is not everything, but it is the most serious and life-and-death matter in the entire human history. when a group of well-organized and armed gangsters storms into your home and do whatever they want, you can try to persuade them with peaceful mean and see what happens.

Well-organized violence always triumphs over less-organized violence, and powerful violence always defeats weak violence. if you have bombers you can bomb someone's elementary school and kill their children, and worry no consequences—unless they have a lot of missiles.

Violence is meaningless? you better ask the native americans, Africans, Indians, and Asians what they suffered from the 16th to the 20th century (and in fact, even now), and they will give you the answer.

 

[jian]

Violence is not everything, but it is the most serious and life-and-death matter in the entire human history. when a group of well-organized and armed gangsters storms into your home and do whatever they want, you can try to persuade them with peaceful mean and see what happens.

Well-organized violence always triumphs over less-organized violence, and powerful violence always defeats weak violence. if you have bombers you can bomb someone's elementary school and kill their children, and worry no consequences—unless they have a lot of missiles.

Violence is meaningless? you better ask the native americans, Africans, Indians, and Asians what they suffered from the 16th to the 20th century (and in fact, even now), and they will give you the answer.

Yes, violence is important, but it’s only one way to affect other people or society, and to assume that superhumans (or humans) can or should only be measured by or valued for their ability to kill is an excessively grim and extremely limited view of history or destiny.

To assume that the default condition of humanity is war, that the highest technology is weaponry, is a terrible place to start a story. If you only want to tell stories about murder or war, well, that’s up to you, but don’t be surprised if that’s not a common view.

 

[Tonguez]

Whether its Heroic Benevolence or Violent Dominance Pattern B creates a natural hierarchy with its low level masses (75% of population) a natural underclass that can be easily mobilized by the tiers above. The few Elites develop strong identity or brand that can either inspire respect or impose fear. Level 9s are virtually godlike compared to the masses. Whereas the Level 7-8 elites might form a Dominant Council monitoring the actions of the masses below them.

Pattern A by contrasts has a huge mass of mid-tiers, so while the Level 9s are still godlike, they can be challenged by the mass of mid-levels thus causing friction as villains team up to take on the elite heroes.

 

[Anonym]

Yes, violence is important, but it’s only one way to affect other people or society, and to assume that superhumans (or humans) can or should only be measured by or valued for their ability to kill is an excessively grim and extremely limited view of history or destiny.

To assume that the default condition of humanity is war, that the highest technology is weaponry, is a terrible place to start a story. If you only want to tell stories about murder or war, well, that’s up to you, but don’t be surprised if that’s not a common view.

yeah, humans can either destroy or build things. but just remember: how much water a bucket can hold depends on the shortest wooden board————one person's behavior of destruction can destroy the works of 100 people, unless others can use the same force to stop and punish him.

war and violence is one of most important parts of human history,if a human society cannot protect itself with violence or not enough violence power, then it is a piece of meat that will be eated,conquered, eliminated, or enslaved by other human societies. whether you like it or not, that's how the things work.Iran does not have the ability to attack the United States, so the United States can use bombers to kill their president and children, while Iran can only rely on blockading the Strait of Hormuz as a means of retaliation.

 

[Umbran]

Iran does not have the ability to attack the United States, so the United States can use bombers to kill their president and children, while Iran can only rely on blockading the Strait of Hormuz as a means of retaliation.

Mod note:
Please note, this site has a "no real-world politics" rule. Your personal take on current real-world political events is not a recommended support for your arguments.

 

[jian]

Whether its Heroic Benevolence or Violent Dominance Pattern B creates a natural hierarchy with its low level masses (75% of population) a natural underclass that can be easily mobilized by the tiers above. The few Elites develop strong identity or brand that can either inspire respect or impose fear. Level 9s are virtually godlike compared to the masses. Whereas the Level 7-8 elites might form a Dominant Council monitoring the actions of the masses below them.

Pattern A by contrasts has a huge mass of mid-tiers, so while the Level 9s are still godlike, they can be challenged by the mass of mid-levels thus causing friction as villains team up to take on the elite heroes.

Treating it like wealth (similarly randomly distributed at birth) then yes, you’re quite right - pattern A is more equal, pattern B is less so. It’s a matter for some debate whether any actual social hierarchy would form and what the rest of humanity would encourage or discourage, but the disparity in power exists regardless. The difference with wealth, of course, is that everyone on Earth is part of the wealth pyramid.

The difference between the patterns is really dependent on whether a large number of level 5s can counter the effects on society of one level 1, assuming they want to. If so, how many - five, ten, a hundred?