D&D General How do you set the DC of an ability check

[Li Shenron]

How do you set the DC of an ability check? It's supposed to be one of the basic routine tasks of a DM, but I have a hunch that we don't do it the same way...

Published adventures have plenty of DCs specified, but these are hardly enough to cover a fraction of what your players end up wanting to do. The question here is what is your process for setting a DC when you obviously don't already have one from the adventure itself, but the question applies to both when you are preparing the adventure (so you have time to think about more ability checks that might come up during play) and when you are already playing and you realize the PCs are asking to attempt something you haven't set a DC for already.

The 5e PHB/DMG only give us a very basic table of reference DCs with generic labels "easy", "hard" and so on, and few examples. The labels here can be deceiving, so perhaps it's best not to focus too much on them, but rather on the DC values themselves. But this is anyway a first pain point for a DM who might think "this should be easy, so I'll make it DC 10" without realizing it's only a 55% success chance for characters with no bonus on the roll (even though the PCs have a bonus on most checks since level 1, they may still not have it on everything).

The second pain point is whether you should set a DC in a vacuum (as in "this task has an objective DC X for everyone") or tailor it to the PCs. I usually try to be objective, but I've seen DMs simply scale the DCs up with the PCs level, perhaps in an attempt to keep success chances stable across levels. At the extreme, I've seen DMs seemingly always declare a success if the dice result is generically high and a failure if single-digit, not even giving much attention to what is the PC's bonus on the check...

The third pain point is whether you should modify a DC based on the circumstances (such as having the right tool for the job), or instead use (dis)advantage or other bonuses. For instance: does climbing a wall with a rope have a lower DC than climbing the same wall without a rope? Or do they have the same DC, but you have advantage (or another bonus) if you use a rope?

I am also curious to know how many DMs keep a reference list of tasks by DC (such as a list of door types, and the Strength check DC to force open them) or just improvise.

 

[VashVet]

My thought is if it’s easy, don’t do the check at all. The heroes simply can do it.

DC 15 and DC 20 for average or hard but I also like fail forward results where failure typically results in a complication versus outright failure unless the roll is extremely low.

 

[Scott Christian]

Well, here is what is going to happen. A bunch of people are going to say they consider the terrain, weather, environment, noise level, complexity, psyche of relevant NPCs, time limits, etc. on every check. Then another group are going to say they use their instincts. Then another group of people are going to say they preplan for most of the skill checks, at least all the ones that are important.

And the truth is, most DMs use a mixture of all three. The three-sided scale might tip a little for one DM as opposed to another, but I think we have all leaned on each side of the scale at one time or another.

 

[Maxperson]

The 5e PHB/DMG only give us a very basic table of reference DCs with generic labels "easy", "hard" and so on, and few examples. The labels here can be deceiving, so perhaps it's best not to focus too much on them, but rather on the DC values themselves. But this is anyway a first pain point for a DM who might think "this should be easy, so I'll make it DC 10" without realizing it's only a 55% success chance for characters with no bonus on the roll (even though the PCs have a bonus on most checks since level 1, they may still not have it on everything).

I don't agree that the DC table in the PHB should be ignored. Remember, you only roll if the outcome is in doubt and if failure has meaning. Most of the time if something is easy, the outcome is not in doubt, so success is automatic. Sometimes, you might be being chased by a giant and that easy task has to be done under a lot of pressure and very quickly, so now the outcome is in doubt and failure means death by giant, so failure has meaning. With no bonus under those circumstances, a PC can easily fail an easy test 45% of the time.

So I absolutely use that table when picking DCs. If I think it's hard, it's a DC 20. If I think it's harder than moderate, but not hard, I'll pick something in-between 15 and 20.

The second pain point is whether you should set a DC in a vacuum (as in "this task has an objective DC X for everyone") or tailor it to the PCs. I usually try to be objective, but I've seen DMs simply scale the DCs up with the PCs level, perhaps in an attempt to keep success chances stable across levels. At the extreme, I've seen DMs seemingly always declare a success if the dice result is generically high and a failure if single-digit, not even giving much attention to what is the PC's bonus on the check...

I never scale DCs based on character level. Not only is it silly to think that the DC will be 15 for a level 1 character, but 25 for a level 20 character, but it also invalidates character improvement, which is a major part of the game.

The third pain point is whether you should modify a DC based on the circumstances (such as having the right tool for the job), or instead use (dis)advantage or other bonuses. For instance: does climbing a wall with a rope have a lower DC than climbing the same wall without a rope? Or do they have the same DC, but you have advantage (or another bonus) if you use a rope?

This one I play by ear. Generally, though, if it's environmental, like a wet wall being harder than a dry one, I'll up the DC. If it's a character issue, like a PC using a bent nail as a lockpick, I'll apply disadvantage.

I am also curious to know how many DMs keep a reference list of tasks by DC (such as a list of door types, and the Strength check DC to force open them) or just improvise.

I don't have a list. I just go with the easy, moderate, hard, etc. for setting DCs.

 

[aco175]

I adjust the DC based on what I think the dungeon would allow. A goblin made lock might be DC10 to pick, but a royal treasury might be 25. Most typical locks would be DC15. Having training in the skill and tools gives advantage.

I also modify the DC based on the environment. A typical sneak DC might be 15 with armor forcing disadvantage, but it could be offset with the noise of a river or drunken revelry by the monsters. It could even grant advantage to those without armor.

I may also have group checks with the PCs needing half to make the DC for all the manage to do the thing. This is typically to not get lost or sneak past something, or could be to negotiate with the NPC to gain favor.

I have been getting away from having everyone roll a check such as Perception or Investigation when just searching the room or something. There may be a secret door but only one PC is looking around the bookshelves. I have that person make a roll and then all the players now know there is something so they suddenly want to check as well. Some of this is tampered with a time crunch. I'll tell the group that if everyone wants to check everything it takes more time, and thus more wandering monster checks.

This may be not needed if the group is now in the empty dungeon with no time penalty. Then I may just allow the 'take 20' from earlier editions. This skips the player/DM back and forth of checking this place and then that one with 5 PCs making rolls and generally someone rolls high enough.

As the PCs get higher in level I have been just allowing someone with proficiency in something to automatically do the thing. Searching for herbs and you are 11th level and trained in Survival- you find them. Trained in Stealth and you are sneaking up on a lone guard sitting by the fire- fine. I find it rewards players for taking the skill and allows more powerful PCs to do things as a reward for being special from the others.

 

[el-remmen]

I don't agree that the DC table in the PHB should be ignored. Remember, you only roll if the outcome is in doubt and if failure has meaning. Most of the time if something is easy, the outcome is not in doubt, so success is automatic. Sometimes, you might be being chased by a giant and that easy task has to be done under a lot of pressure and very quickly, so now the outcome is in doubt and failure means death by giant, so failure has meaning. With no bonus under those circumstances, a PC can easily fail an easy test 45% of the time.

So I absolutely use that table when picking DCs. If I think it's hard, it's a DC 20. If I think it's harder than moderate, but not hard, I'll pick something in-between 15 and 20.

I never scale DCs based on character level. Not only is it silly to think that the DC will be 15 for a level 1 character, but 25 for a level 20 character, but it also invalidates character improvement, which is a major part of the game.

This one I play by ear. Generally, though, if it's environmental, like a wet wall being harder than a dry one, I'll up the DC. If it's a character issue, like a PC using a bent nail as a lockpick, I'll apply disadvantage.

I don't have a list. I just go with the easy, moderate, hard, etc. for setting DCs.

Rather than type up my own response, I am just gonna say I am basically with @Maxperson on this. (There's a first time for everything, I guess )

 

[CreamCloud0]

personally, i'd want to set objective DCs for the task, but 5e is so tightfisted on it's skill system that most of the classes who i think should meet difficult skill DCs simply wouldn't have the expertise to reach them. otherwise, the d20 is too swingy a factor to properly set the DCs i think should be.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

How do you set the DC of an ability check? It's supposed to be one of the basic routine tasks of a DM, but I have a hunch that we don't do it the same way...

Published adventures have plenty of DCs specified, but these are hardly enough to cover a fraction of what your players end up wanting to do. The question here is what is your process for setting a DC when you obviously don't already have one from the adventure itself, but the question applies to both when you are preparing the adventure (so you have time to think about more ability checks that might come up during play) and when you are already playing and you realize the PCs are asking to attempt something you haven't set a DC for already.

The 5e PHB/DMG only give us a very basic table of reference DCs with generic labels "easy", "hard" and so on, and few examples. The labels here can be deceiving, so perhaps it's best not to focus too much on them, but rather on the DC values themselves. But this is anyway a first pain point for a DM who might think "this should be easy, so I'll make it DC 10" without realizing it's only a 55% success chance for characters with no bonus on the roll (even though the PCs have a bonus on most checks since level 1, they may still not have it on everything).

The second pain point is whether you should set a DC in a vacuum (as in "this task has an objective DC X for everyone") or tailor it to the PCs. I usually try to be objective, but I've seen DMs simply scale the DCs up with the PCs level, perhaps in an attempt to keep success chances stable across levels. At the extreme, I've seen DMs seemingly always declare a success if the dice result is generically high and a failure if single-digit, not even giving much attention to what is the PC's bonus on the check...

The third pain point is whether you should modify a DC based on the circumstances (such as having the right tool for the job), or instead use (dis)advantage or other bonuses. For instance: does climbing a wall with a rope have a lower DC than climbing the same wall without a rope? Or do they have the same DC, but you have advantage (or another bonus) if you use a rope?

I am also curious to know how many DMs keep a reference list of tasks by DC (such as a list of door types, and the Strength check DC to force open them) or just improvise.

I will echo @VashVet above in that is there is not pressure and the characters should have competence in the matter they pass the check.
I set average at 10, 15 for hard, 20 and 25 for increasing difficulty. I also treat the steps as milestones for greater success where appropriate.
In 5e I generally do not scale DC, though as the PCs level the locks/traps may be better made or whatever and thus the DCs increase. To me a rope is not going to make climbing easier but it is going to make falling less dangerous. That said, I would, in the case of climbing, tend to the view that if a thing can be climbed, it can simply be climbed but that failing a climb check would indicate that the initial route was not feasible and the climber had to backtrack making the climb longer.

 

[Maxperson]

Rather than type up my own response, I am just gonna say I am basically with @Maxperson on this. (There's a first time for everything, I guess )

Life works out oddly sometimes!

 

[payn]

The 5e PHB/DMG only give us a very basic table of reference DCs with generic labels "easy", "hard" and so on, and few examples. The labels here can be deceiving, so perhaps it's best not to focus too much on them, but rather on the DC values themselves. But this is anyway a first pain point for a DM who might think "this should be easy, so I'll make it DC 10" without realizing it's only a 55% success chance for characters with no bonus on the roll (even though the PCs have a bonus on most checks since level 1, they may still not have it on everything).

Only a 55% chance of success seems great to me. Though, I also only make the players roll if the outcome is actually interesting.

The second pain point is whether you should set a DC in a vacuum (as in "this task has an objective DC X for everyone") or tailor it to the PCs. I usually try to be objective, but I've seen DMs simply scale the DCs up with the PCs level, perhaps in an attempt to keep success chances stable across levels. At the extreme, I've seen DMs seemingly always declare a success if the dice result is generically high and a failure if single-digit, not even giving much attention to what is the PC's bonus on the check...

BA allows the vacuum to work, unlike 3E, which requires scaling. The only time I fly by the seat of my pants is if something is really out of bounds of the system and the outcome is interesting (see pain point #1).

The third pain point is whether you should modify a DC based on the circumstances (such as having the right tool for the job), or instead use (dis)advantage or other bonuses. For instance: does climbing a wall with a rope have a lower DC than climbing the same wall without a rope? Or do they have the same DC, but you have advantage (or another bonus) if you use a rope?

Id make the DC same, but use advantage with the rope in 5E. In 3E/PF1 usually modifiers are in the numbers and scaling. Im out of practice, but I used to be good at eyeballing it. Though the 5E BA system is nice becasue its more consistent.

I am also curious to know how many DMs keep a reference list of tasks by DC (such as a list of door types, and the Strength check DC to force open them) or just improvise.

Just use the DC table from the DMG.