D&D General I’m Trying to Love D&D Again—and I’ve Got Some Complaints. Young Grognard posting.

If you want to go back that far. In 1E & 2E we usually had two PCs, and modules made it clear thats what it took for a normal party. You had your main and your backup in case your main died. Then you'd bring in a new 1st level secondary PC. That was pretty standard even after I made it to college and met with other gaming groups. I'd join and they'd tell me to roll up two PCs. That didn't even include hirelings and henchmen, who usually stayed with the camp unless specifically needed. With 3E, it was clear the were going for a four person party so it was just one PC although everybody playing a party NPC for combat to take load off the DM was pretty common.
The early modules gave you a pretty high recommended character count, but they generally expected you to be running one character each, and maybe adding a couple of NPC hirelings if necessary to fill out the group if it was small.

B1, Keep on the Borderlands:
This module has been designed to allow six to nine player characters of first level to play out many adventures, gradually working up to second or third level of experience in the process. The group is assumed to have at least one magic-user and one cleric In It. If you have fewer than six players, be sure to arrange for them to get both advice and help in the KEEP. For example, they should have advice from a friendly individual to “stay near the beginning of the ravine area, and enter the lower caves first”, to avoid their getting into immediate trouble with higher level monsters. Likewise, the services of several men-at-arms* must be available to smaller parties, If only two or three player characters are to adventure, be sure to have a non-player character or two go along, as well as a few men-at-arms. In addition, give the player characters a magic dagger or some magic arrows and at least one potion of healing - family bequests to aid them in finding their fame and fortune when they go against Chaos.

The DM should be careful to give the player characters a reasonable chance to survive. If your players tend to be rash and unthinking, it might be better to allow them to have a few men-at-arms accompany them even if the party is large, and they don’t attempt to hire such mercenaries*.Hopefully, they will quickly learn that the monsters here will work together and attack intelligently, if able. If this lesson is not learned, all that can be done is to allow the chips to fall where they may. Dead characters cannot be brought back to life here!

I've heard a fair number of folks talk about how their player groups were never big enough for the recommended numbers, so they adopted a kluge of running multiple characters each, but I don't remember any of TSR's modules saying this was expected practice or "normal".

This is a bit different/distinct from groups which had the practice of folks rolling up a second, back-up character in high lethality games, especially ones where character generation was a bit involved. Like AD&D can be, or Pendragon is, for example.

Or the 1E DMG suggesting that in an open world-style game with shared time tracking, if a player had one character stuck "off-board" during a long overland trip or healing from wounds or doing spell research or something, that it would be common practice to play their henchman in the interim or start up a second PC to play while your primary was out of action waiting for the calendar to catch up to them.
 
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Only to a point, says I. The end result (e.g. the in-hindsight game record or log) may look like a collaboration but it's still a collection of individual people producing said result, and each individual is IMO entitled to be and remain their own independent free-thinking person throughout the process - both as player and as character.

If you cannot work out how to be an independent, free-thinking person, but also cooperate with other human beings, I don't think anyone here can help you.

If you can work that out, then this looks like an obtuse reading of what folks are saying.
 

We occasionally had henchmen back then but they were never main characters. It's not like there was a lot of consistency.

Well, the multiple-characters-at-once thing was often very location-specific, and was a habit picked up because first to third level OD&D characters (and in a different way, early RQ characters) were so damn brittle.

The rotating pool thing seemed a lot more common though, but this was also in environments where people moved characters from game to game all the time. If someone had a really tight closed campaign it probably wouldn't have happened, but I wasn't seeing a lot of that in 1976.
 

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Well, the multiple-characters-at-once thing was often very location-specific, and was a habit picked up because first to third level OD&D characters (and in a different way, early RQ characters) were so damn brittle.

The rotating pool thing seemed a lot more common though, but this was also in environments where people moved characters from game to game all the time. If someone had a really tight closed campaign it probably wouldn't have happened, but I wasn't seeing a lot of that in 1976.
You're still ahead of me; in 1976 I wasn't seeing anything at all. :)
 

Well, the multiple-characters-at-once thing was often very location-specific, and was a habit picked up because first to third level OD&D characters (and in a different way, early RQ characters) were so damn brittle.

The rotating pool thing seemed a lot more common though, but this was also in environments where people moved characters from game to game all the time. If someone had a really tight closed campaign it probably wouldn't have happened, but I wasn't seeing a lot of that in 1976.
Perhaps it's my sensibility from being an "older gamer" but in my most recent 5e campaign, with three players new to the game, during Session Zero I asked each of them to run two PCs. I did so because:

1. We were starting at first-level and I know first-level PCs have low hit points and are very subject to swings of the dice - the DM can spoonfeed easy encounters but if you put PCs in truly dangerous situations, it is quite likely one or more will die at low levels.
2. Three PCs (instead of 4) means I either have to really put on the kiddie gloves at lower levels or accept that there is a significant chance of death.
3. My DMing style is both something of a sandbox (and I tell my players outright "I won't tailor encounters to you; you could easily get into something over your head at low level, retreat should always be considered an option") and has old-school sensibilities (longer, resource-draining dungeon excursions between trips to a safe haven so short and long rests will be few and far between) which I knew these players would not know at first. So expected there to be some "bad decisions" early that led to death (though to be fair, I always tried to telegraph "this is not a good idea").
4. I am also a "if the result of a roll would be obvious to the characters, the roll is made in the open" type of DM (combat rolls, for instance, are always made in front of the characters; something like an Insight/Deception check will not be)... meaning I can't/won't fudge rolls to keep PCs alive.

Given all of that, I expected (1) there would be lethality and (2) the party would need more than three characters to succeed. Having each PC double up solved both 1 (you're not out of the game when one of your characters drops) and 2 (a party of six survives much more easily than a party of three). In my experience, when players know there is real risk involved the rewards for success are sweeter - you are acutely aware you actually COULD have failed and weren't just brought to victory by DM fiat/storytelling. And I articulated all of this philosophy in Session Zero.

Yes, all three of the players mostly inhabited a "primary" character and had a "secondary" character and yes, there were a few deaths along the way (one of the players still has a fear of gelatinous cubes), but after a couple of levels, the swinginess of low-level combat went away, the players got better at reading situations, and got better at "equally inhabiting" both characters.

Not for every situation, but I think in this case it was definitely the right call, and it was a call I could foresee before the campaign started. These players won't always want to play multiple characters, but I think for small groups doing old-school-type dungeon crawls at low levels, I would definitely recommend.
 


Not for every situation, but I think in this case it was definitely the right call, and it was a call I could foresee before the campaign started. These players won't always want to play multiple characters, but I think for small groups doing old-school-type dungeon crawls at low levels, I would definitely recommend.

We saw this carry on well past the old dungeon-crawl games, but some of it still was that we were often playing games where unexpected lethality to could crop up. OD&D definitely was an influence on it, however, where with low-level games there were times where not all intelligent play in the world was going to prevent you from losing characters from time to time, and sometimes losing quite a few.
 

I thought we were above policing other people's playstyles??? I think it's great that people can play in ways that others would find uncomfortable. If I wanted a more homogeneous play culture, I'd go play 4E!
 

I thought we were above policing other people's playstyles??? I think it's great that people can play in ways that others would find uncomfortable. If I wanted a more homogeneous play culture, I'd go play 4E!

While in principal I'm all for people playing the way they have fun, the problem is RPGs are a networked hobby, and not everyone, essentially, stays in their lane. At the very least you have to account for what happens when people end up the same game that have conflicting playstyles, and how that's resolved (and yes, sometimes that's "some of them go away", but contrary to what some people will say, its not always that tidy for any number of reasons).
 

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