"I invent Greek Fire!" and other PC shenanigans

[Gorgon Zee]

There's an overlap between the position that says "I control my character's thoughts and emotions" and this sort of play.

Many people believe that the GM should not have control over a character's thoughts and emotions, and so for them there really isn't a good reason why their character should not invent anything the player can think of. After all, telling them "your character would not think of that" is essentially the same as saying "your character thinks that ..." which many players strongly dislike.

If you have this position on the absolute control of character thought by the player, then as a GM it's going to be hard to prevent this sort of behavior. Some inventions really are not hard to make work if you know the goal, so if the player has absolute control over the character's thoughts, then anachronistic stuff will be invented. That's the style of play you're going with.

 

[Minion X]

But the player in question does this sort of thing in any RPG; he gathers up seemingly innocuous equipment (sacks, ropes, fertilizer etc...) and comes up with elaborate explosives that defy the tech level of the setting.

This is also testing the limits of the GM's knowledge and decision-making. Pre-modern fertilizer is just plain old s*it, not the industrially produced ammonium nitrate that is used for both fertilizer and explosive, but the player can hope that the GM will have some vague idea of "fertilizer bombs" from watching the news and won't bother to look it up in the heat of the moment. It's like how medieval lamp oil is vegetable oil or animal fats, and not highly flammable kerosene.

Regardless, if the player insists that their character is trying to handle combustible or flammable materials without the right skills, knowledge and equipment, it should logically trigger a roll to see if they blow themselves up, with all applicable negative modifiers.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

Regardless, if the player insists that their character is trying to handle combustible or flammable materials without the right skills, knowledge and equipment, it should logically trigger a roll to see if they blow themselves up, with all applicable negative modifiers.

Knowledge that is only possible to gain from the estates of a few people who themselves failed that roll.

 

[Minion X]

Knowledge that is only possible to gain from the estates of a few people who themselves failed that roll.

Possibly the player's previous characters. The clever player keeps several henchmen who take notes of their employers doings and demise to pass on.

 

[Byrd]

There's an overlap between the position that says "I control my character's thoughts and emotions" and this sort of play.

Many people believe that the GM should not have control over a character's thoughts and emotions, and so for them there really isn't a good reason why their character should not invent anything the player can think of. After all, telling them "your character would not think of that" is essentially the same as saying "your character thinks that ..." which many players strongly dislike.

If you have this position on the absolute control of character thought by the player, then as a GM it's going to be hard to prevent this sort of behavior. Some inventions really are not hard to make work if you know the goal, so if the player has absolute control over the character's thoughts, then anachronistic stuff will be invented. That's the style of play you're going with.

The pre-internet phenomenon of kids arguing, and then digging through an encyclopedia to find an answer comes to mind...

[Not that the game could be at all subversively educational, what with the math rocks and all. ]

 

[aco175]

Possibly the player's previous characters. The clever player keeps several henchmen who take notes of their employers doings and demise to pass on.

This is Bob, the Second. He is the twin of Bob, the First and inherits all his possessions when Bob died. This includes his henchmen and notes on the bomb he was building. His goal is to not let his brother's death be in vain and will continue his work.

 

[bsss]

So on that note, how do you gracefully handle players leveraging their historical and practical knowledge to have their characters build and essentially invent things in the campaign setting?

I would treat it as a long-term objective, not considerably different than if the player wanted the character to create the next legendary artifact. It sounds like a significant amount of work and time investment to assume the power and experience to create/invent, say, the portable hole, let alone the Deck of Many Things --- so sure, have at it, but we need to talk about your steps to get there in terms of discovery and goals.

How does the PC obtain this knowledge, if it's not part of the setting already? They must learn from disassociated specialists and be a creative engineer, so set some steps on the path to seek out those secrets --- find the shunned radicals, access the sealed archives, delve into the forgotten ruins of past ages. How does the PC have the means to experiment while on the road? They might need a dedicated space, so how do you obtain that without derailing the game for everyone --- you need a keep or base for your laboratory, you must hold it and maintain it, you need access to it in your downtime. Things of that nature.

How do you progress on those goals? Adventures.

I find this weeds out the players interested in merely a simple exploit and encourages a creative story for the players who actually do want to make a goal of all the adventure-stuff rigmarole.

 

[Willie the Duck]

There's an overlap between the position that says "I control my character's thoughts and emotions" and this sort of play.

Many people believe that the GM should not have control over a character's thoughts and emotions, and so for them there really isn't a good reason why their character should not invent anything the player can think of. After all, telling them "your character would not think of that" is essentially the same as saying "your character thinks that ..." which many players strongly dislike.

If you have this position on the absolute control of character thought by the player, then as a GM it's going to be hard to prevent this sort of behavior. Some inventions really are not hard to make work if you know the goal, so if the player has absolute control over the character's thoughts, then anachronistic stuff will be invented. That's the style of play you're going with.

That's pretty much what they are banking on (the DM respecting their player-to-character-autonomy). There are plenty of ways around it. Another (that I'll add to my bullet list) is thus (and switching from Greek Fire to gunpowder, since we've all heard the whole 'sulfur, charcoal, and saltpeter' thing since grade/primary school):

• "You have control over your character's thoughts, emotions, and actions. However, your character can't just choose to invent some great world-changing invention. If that were something one could do, I'd be a bazillionaire. So, you can decide that your character is going to put together sulfur, charcoal, and saltpeter; but you don't know that that is the recipe for gunpowder in this world, and since you are actively trying an end-run around the verisimilitude of the inventing process, I am going to rule that it is not."

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

In my campaign the players don't have much time to go inventinizing. They don't have a lab. Long rests are so difficult to come by.

 

[Bae'zel]

I would treat it as a long-term objective, not considerably different than if the player wanted the character to create the next legendary artifact. It sounds like a significant amount of work and time investment to assume the power and experience to create/invent, say, the portable hole, let alone the Deck of Many Things --- so sure, have at it, but we need to talk about your steps to get there in terms of discovery and goals.

How does the PC obtain this knowledge, if it's not part of the setting already? They must learn from disassociated specialists and be a creative engineer, so set some steps on the path to seek out those secrets --- find the shunned radicals, access the sealed archives, delve into the forgotten ruins of past ages. How does the PC have the means to experiment while on the road? They might need a dedicated space, so how do you obtain that without derailing the game for everyone --- you need a keep or base for your laboratory, you must hold it and maintain it, you need access to it in your downtime. Things of that nature.

How do you progress on those goals? Adventures.

I find this weeds out the players interested in merely a simple exploit and encourages a creative story for the players who actually do want to make a goal of all the adventure-stuff rigmarole.

THanks for this, I really like this approach. Gets the players thinking about long-term character goals and how to further invest into the setting.

Many thanks for this advice!