I think i have universal controller feature

[Drowdruid]

I think this should be penalty to saves say a -2, because one of the main controller roles is applying harmful conditions, and i think all controller have powers that do that so why not especially display that part of role.
Edit:
It could be also 2x encounter that change condition that doesn't need save to end to save(ends). Maybe then also apply penalty to saves, but whatever it is i think universal feature should metagame conditions.

 

[mneme]

The problem is, not all controllers drop conditions on people -- some summon critters to get in the way or make zones.

But I really like the idea that controllers should have features that make them better at the business of controlling -- such that when a non-controller borrows a controller power (or has a similar power), it works better for the controller than it does for the borrower.

Save penalties work well for this; so might a way to get around immunity to some controlling effects (or maybe have immunity etc alia work via the save mechanic?)

 

[Drowdruid]

I think almost all summoners and zoners use also other powers not only summons etc.
Edit:
And not all leaders are equally good at healing.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Conditions aren't the whole controller portfolio, there's also area denial, minion-sweeping, and battlefield re-shaping.

I know, all leaders get healing features, but not all get buffing features, some get 'em from their powers.

True enough. It is a sort of step in the right direction, the "some feature affecting (save ends) effects" or even "something affecting durrations" would be a better way of doing it. One controller might get a secondary stat bonus as a save penalty to one save/encounter, another a -2 to most saves, or to sustain one spell for free each round, etc.... oh, or apart from durrations, one might get an ability to cast larger AEs, including zones, by reducing some other aspect of the power, like damage (there's a feat that does that already, IIRC) or at the cost of going from targeting enemies to targeting creatures.

 

[Riastlin]

Conditions aren't the whole controller portfolio, there's also area denial, minion-sweeping, and battlefield re-shaping.

I know, all leaders get healing features, but not all get buffing features, some get 'em from their powers.

True enough. It is a sort of step in the right direction, the "some feature affecting (save ends) effects" or even "something affecting durrations" would be a better way of doing it. One controller might get a secondary stat bonus as a save penalty to one save/encounter, another a -2 to most saves, or to sustain one spell for free each round, etc.... oh, or apart from durrations, one might get an ability to cast larger AEs, including zones, by reducing some other aspect of the power, like damage (there's a feat that does that already, IIRC) or at the cost of going from targeting enemies to targeting creatures.

I like the direction you are taking with the OP's idea here. The idea being to give all controller classes a class feature that in some way enhances their schtick. Making it save based in some way (i.e. either a penalty to saves, once per round/encounter require a successful save to be rerolled, etc.) makes the idea a little tighter (i.e. easier to recognize), but at the very least giving them something to enhance their schtick is definitely the way to go.

I guess the thing I like about making them all save based is that it falls in line with the other roles having clearly defined role features. Leaders get 2x encounter heals. Defenders get Marks that have some sort of punishment in them. Strikers get extra damage features, etc. Sure, each class within a role expresses those features differently (some marks are better than others, some leaders heal better than others, etc.), but the idea is still there.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I'm using a -2 attack penalty as the default controller thing in my 4e lite system.

 

[Vael]

I think the Protector Druid is a step in this direction ... Nature's Growth allows you to alter the terrain for the encounter, every encounter.

 

[Drowdruid]

[MENTION=57043]Vael[/MENTION]
I think the Protector Druid is a step in this direction

I agree it is very controllerish, but i think more iconic is applying penalty conditions in general for controllers, than the terrain manipulation through zones.
Thats all

[MENTION=40398]Tequila Sunrise[/MENTION]
I'm using a -2 attack penalty as the default controller thing in my 4e lite system.

It is good, but i think little too similar to defenders ability.

And finally i have proposition! Lets try make and name controller feature for equisting controller classes and subclasses.

I have for Witches:
Evil Eye
Encounter(Special)*Arcane, Gaze
Special: 2x Encounter (at 16th 3x)
Minor Action * Ranged Sight
Target: One creature
Effect: Target automatically fail one next saving throw against effect applied to target by you since the end of your next turn.
In addition target suffer a -2 penalty to all saving throws against effects applied to target by you until the end of your next turn.
Sustain(Minor): Additional effect is sustained.
Edit:
Sure it is need be balanced, but i'm not really good at it. I'm open at suggestions

 

[Nichwee]

I have for Witches:
Evil Eye
Encounter(Special)*Arcane, Gaze
Special: 2x Encounter (at 16th 3x)
Minor Action * Ranged Sight
Target: One creature
Effect: Target automatically fail one next saving throw against effect applied to target by you since the end of your next turn.
In addition target suffer a -2 penalty to all saving throws against effects applied to target by you until the end of your next turn.
Sustain(Minor): Additional effect is sustained.

Nice idea of giving Controllers an ability that is there "Controller Feature" but this one is so unbalanced it is unreal.
TooMuch + This = Ensured way to cripple a mob - even an Elite Solo who has really good bonuses to Saves (Sleep, Face Of Death and a load of other powers do the "Fail the save and get really screwed for a while".) This is why UberMobs get such good saves to avoid this.

 

[marelion]

The problem I see controlers have is that they have serious trouble controlling elites and solos the way they are currently handled:

All our Wizard does in a boss fight is hurl Magic Missiles at it. There is no way to get past that +5 to saving throws (if you are no orbizard, that is), in fact you are most often better off missing with your powers since the duration then changes to 'until the end of your next turn.' I`m not really convinced that this is intended by WoTC but it occurs quite frequently.

I can understand 4E needs a way to prevent a solo stunlock from happening but right now limiting the actions of solos (and to a lesser extent this applies to elites as well) is right out for tactical consideration. The safest way is to burn through high damage daily/encounter powers and nuke the boss back into the Stone Age.

Applying conditions such as -2 to to attack rolls from powers like Dishearten is nice in theory but many GMs prefer to use high-level monsters as solos that will hit frequently anyway. Now this is not WoTC`s fault per se but they should definetely establish better guide lines (such as Stalker0`s Anti-Grind guide) and explain to GMs why picking Solos 3 or 4 level higher than the party does not make for interesting encounters. Solos run by the book tend to be large bags of hit points or frustrating daze/stun/immobilze-blasters. Think of the Dracolich, a brilliant example of how a solo should NOT be done.

To work in solo encounters controllers should all have access to daily powers that last until the end of the controller`s next turn, rather than invoilve daze/stun/restrain conditions that a safe can end.

Decent controller daily powers imho should change the terrain rather than affect the monsters directly. This way you can make sure daily powers do deserve their status without creating save-or-suck situations like Face of Death/Visions of Ruins, where a failed saving throw likely means the untimely end to the encounter.

If controllers now had had better things to do then cry out loud:' He finally failed the save: Ok, Everybody, it`s nova time. Burn your action points!' solos would not require quite the same impressive arsenal of action denial they are forced to employ under the current design. To me, it is rather frustrating as a player to be dazed/immobilzed/weakened for 6 out of 8 rounds or face BBEG #322 who is both insubstantial and has the abilty to regenerate, just to make sure the encounter gives our characters the illusion that the party is facing a powerful enemy, whilst deep within as a player you think the boss was hitting you the player with his sleep power rather than your character.

Sorry i got a little carried away here, it was not my intention to highjack the thread. Butr i feel that the problem about controler design in 4E has a lot to do with the balancing of solo encounters.

I do agree with the OP that controllers should all have class features that deal with control, but as I layed out above I`m more inclined to introduce features that allow controllers to exert control over the terrain rather than the monstera themselves. Just from the top of my head, what about this feature for druids:

Roots of the World Tree: Once per encounter when you use a power that immobilizes or slows a creature you can choose to create a zone of difficult terrain in a close burst 1 centered on the target of the triggering power. Thie difficult terrain remains until the end of the encounter.


This is just a rather rough first draft, but I hope it fits the bill for coming up with something constructive after all the criticism in my post.



Just my two cents