If 4d6dl is the baseline, what's the PB/Array?

[FreeTheSlaves]

As the title, if 4d6dl is the D&D Next baseline, what's the equivalent Point buy & Array?

Point Buy is customizable so I'd imagine the flexibility would create a slight discount compared to a default array. I'm aware this wasn't the case in 3E/4E, so maybe I'm off with the fairies with this one?

 

[Tallifer]

I assume that the system of buying abilities with points will remain the default system for the convention/Encounters/Living Forgotten Realms games, and therefore there will be a clear, fair and standard array. The random rolls will be mentioned first in the Players' Handbook, but I suspect very many of us will buy our characters' abilities with the points.

However I do not understand what you mean by a slight discount compared to the default array. Do you mean that the average result for rolling four dice and dropping the lowest for each ability will lead lower results than the standard Fourth Edition array?

 

[Hassassin]

I'd like to see 16/14/13/12/10/8 as the default array. It's just slightly better than the average of 4d6dl assuming 3e reroll rules, but I would raise the minimum from +1 and 14 to either +2 and 14 or +1 and 15, not sure which.

25 point buy, 3.5 rules except marginal cost 4 for 17 and 18, would be a bit weaker than the array above, but more versatile.

 

[Number48]

I would imagine the point buy and array presented in 3.5 would still be used, or only tweaked slightly. It was chosen then as being equivalent to 4d6 drop lowest.

 

[TarionzCousin]

To encourage more fun, they're going with 18, 18, 18, 18, 16, 5.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

4d6 drop the lowest is equivalent to 30-31 point buy.

25 or 28 is probably the best non-random equivalency in power.

Probability in Char. Gen. - Page 6 - EN World: Your Daily RPG Magazine

One of the bestest thread I ever started. Also the mathiest.

 

[Halivar]

To encourage more fun, they're going with 18, 18, 18, 18, 16, 5.

The 5 goes in Comeliness, of course.

 

[Dausuul]

4d6 drop the lowest is equivalent to 30-31 point buy.

25 or 28 is probably the best non-random equivalency in power.

One thing to keep in mind is that it is unlikely to be simply 4d6 drop lowest. If it's anything like 3E, there will also be a "hopeless characters" rule which excludes certain possible results, driving up the expected value.

Edit: Never mind, I see you accounted for that.

 

[Hassassin]

4d6 drop the lowest is equivalent to 30-31 point buy.

25 or 28 is probably the best non-random equivalency in power.

Yeah. I've independently written a program to research this back when I was interested in how they compare.

30-31 is the average point buy amount if you roll a lot of characters, but it depends a bit on how you count those with abilities < 8.

26-27 is the average if you round all odd numbers down, again depending on the way you count < 8. You avoid odd numbers in point buy.

25 is the value of the elite array in 3.5 (15/14/13/12/10/8). This is equal to the average of ordered rolls rounded down - i.e. the average highest score is 15-16, the average 2nd highest is 14-15 and so on.

The array I suggested above is actually closer to the ordered average, but the highest score is most important in 3e, so it's probably slightly preferable to rolling, on average.

 

[Hassassin]

One thing to keep in mind is that it is unlikely to be simply 4d6 drop lowest. If it's anything like 3E, there will also be a "hopeless characters" rule which excludes certain possible results, driving up the expected value.

Yes, reroll if total modifier < +1 or if highest ability score < 14. Those are included in the numbers in my post above.

I would make it < +1 or < 15. That way you on average get 16 in the highest.

Edit: 15 in highest is required in 3e for TWF and to cast 9th level spells by 17th level, unless you assume magic items. Those were my original reasons for allowing reroll of 14 highest.