Homebrew Implementing Gold for XP [+]

[not-so-newguy]

Yeah, yet another thread about gold for XP. Inspired by the discussion between @overgeeked and @Lanefan in this thread: OSR IS LYING TO YOU! A reasonable discussion about OSR

The + sign is in the title because I want to keep this a focused thread, focused on the discussion of implementing Gold for XP. This assumes that you want to do this and you find that the type of play this rule incentivizes to be compelling.

Why am I bothering with this?
I’m planning a Lankhmar sandbox game for Jan 2027 and I’m likely to use Gold for XP. Here’s what I have so far:

Spoiler

2. How to gain experience points

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1) Adventuring.

You gain XP through adventure Encounters and Achievements

XP for an average encounter is calculated as 2.5% of experience points necessary to reach the next level threshold.

XP for an average achievement is calculated as 10% of experience points necessary to reach the next level threshold.
(click to enlarge)

Adventurer Level	Average XP per Encounter	Average XP per Achievement
1st	100	400
2nd	400	1,600
3rd	800	3,200
4th	1,600	6,400
5th	3,000	12,000
6th	6,000	24,000
7th	9,000	36,000
8th	12,000	48,000
9th	15,000	60,000

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Encounters: An average adventuring encounter involves risk. It usually involves combat, but other high-stake situations count too, such as negotiating instead of fighting or disarming a trap.

What would be judged as an average encounter for a 1st level adventurer (100) would not count as an average encounter for a 2nd level adventurer (400).

EXAMPLE: Two Warriors face four mooks with cudgels, an average encounter for two first level adventurers. However, Joe is a 1st level Warrior and Shmoe is a 2nd level warrior. After defeating the four mooks, Joe gets 100 xp perhaps a little more. Shmoe, who barely broke a sweat, would receive at most 100 xp, maybe none. No risk, no gain.

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Achievement: An Achievement involves completing an important goal that requires a number of encounters and sessions. An average Achievement would include 6-12 encounters over the course of 1-3 sessions.

EXAMPLE: Completing a typical adventure like Death House in Curse of Strahd

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2) Spending Adventure Loot.

There is one way to spend your cash to gain experience points: Frivolously.

The rate is 1 Experience Point per Gold Rilk spent.

You do this by spending coin on lavish festivities to chisel your stories into legend and gaining the approval of the Masked gods. Money spent otherwise may be a wiser choice but will not gain you any XP. Adventuring is a bold profession, not a practical one. Throwing your cash away in bacchanal festivities allows you to tamp down the trauma and horror of Adventuring. Don't worry, the trauma and horror will all come roaring back to you in your 40s if you manage to live that long.

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XP table for Level Advancement.

Level 1: --0--
Level 2: 4,000 XP
Level 3: 16,000 XP
Level 4: 32,000 XP
Level 5: 64,000 XP
Level 6: 120,000 XP
Level 7: 240,000 XP
Level 8: 360,000 XP
Level 9: 480,000 XP
Level 10: 600,000 XP

I’m open to constructive criticism and clarifications of what I have but it’s not the sole purpose of this thread. I’d like to hear how you implement Gold for XP. What are your rules? What is the type of play that you want to get out of using it? For myself, I’d like the game to reflect the exploits of the adventurers Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, two roguish types who gain coin as easily as they lose it.

 

[Tigris]

First I do normally not like old gamedesign at all. But I do think gold for xp can be a good idea, if implemented well (which was in old games the problem..)

The nice thing with gold for xp is normally that you also reward non combat behaviour because it does not matter how you got the gold. You can fight the enemies or wait until they are gone and then get their loot.


Having said that I was surprised by your implementation, because its working quite different to what one expects and it does still make a difference of combat and other things (achievements and loot)


Also the choice of "use xp for levelup or useful things" is not what I expected, because normally locking xp with gold in modern games is used to know exactly what kind of items someone can buy at a certain level.


I say surprised here, not that these are bad ideas. I like to be surprised by mechanics.

I am also surprised by your simple and relative elegant plan of "use X% of levelup" and not based on some huge number of coins.


Having said that I do have some suggestions:

• Is separate XP and gold necessary? I think one nice thing of gold for xp is that you can combine them. What I mean here would be that your encounters dont give XP but instead drop (items worth) gold as well. (Maybe 5% not 2.5% of next level because you expect half of it to be used for other things).
• If you do the above you dont need any formula for xp conversion or xp values for levelup etc. But just gold for levelup. Making things simpler and even more elegant.
• Why is level 2 to 3 an increaae of xp/gold needed by factor 4 and not factor 2 like all the others? That one stands out.
• I mention this especially since I really like simplified xp tables (for encounter building) where you only need level difference of you and enemies like in pf2. This way you only need 1 small xp table and not 2 long (1 for encounter building and 1 for xp enemies grant). So what I mean is that a normal encounter is 8 xp. And a same level enemy gives 8 xp. And a 1 level lower 4 xp. And a 2 level lower 2 xp and a 3 level lower 1 xp etc. And you need (always) 320 xp to levelup. (Or go up to 10 xp for same level and 400 for levelup.)
• Why not start with lower numbers? Why 4000 xp? Has this to do with the game? With my example above you could go down to 1 coin/xp per level 1 enemy. And 40 to levelup first time.
• Also another way you could "simplify" is if you go up in coins. Lets say 8 bronze coins is a silver coin. And 8 silver coins is a gold coin then you would need for level 2: 40 bronze, 3: 80 bronze, 4: 160 bronze, 5: 40 silver, 6: 80 silver, 7: 160 silver, 8: 40 gold, 9: 80 gold, 10: 160 gold. This naturally gives 3 tiers of play and makes numbers simpler.
• If you want to do all xp comes as gold, then you should make weapons/items "upgradable" like DnD 4e. Like you can deduct the cost for a +1 magic sword from a +2 magic sword if you buy it/let it be crafted id you have a +1 magic sword already. This way money spenr on equipment on eaely levels do not feel wasted.

I hope this is helpfull for you

 

[not-so-newguy]

There’s a lot here to chew on. I’ll have to give it some time before I give a well thought out response. Thanks!

 

[overgeeked]

2) Spending Adventure Loot.

There is one way to spend your cash to gain experience points: Frivolously.

The rate is 1 Experience Point per Gold Rilk spent.

You do this by spending coin on lavish festivities to chisel your stories into legend and gaining the approval of the Masked gods. Money spent otherwise may be a wiser choice but will not gain you any XP. Adventuring is a bold profession, not a practical one. Throwing your cash away in bacchanal festivities allows you to tamp down the trauma and horror of Adventuring. Don't worry, the trauma and horror will all come roaring back to you in your 40s if you manage to live that long.

Frivolous is a good word here.

The version I've used for years is a bit more open, but includes what you have here. It's also the only way to get XP, so feel free to alter or tweak it as you desire.

Basically, you find gold as normal in old-school D&D. Instead of gaining XP for finding gold, you get XP for spending gold, as you have here. Instead of just on frivolous stuff, it can be spent on anything that's not a direct mechanical benefit to the PCs. So not for buying a new sword or suit or armor, but yes for a long list of non-mechanical things. And no buying a sword to gift to another PC or other nonsense like that.

In my games it's been a lot of carousing, bribing officials, paying taxes, tithing to churches, building shrines, training, buying a boat, building a keep, etc.

For bigger purchases and long-term projects, just treat it like an installment plan. It's a big clock. You can pay to progress the clock and once it's done, you get the thing. In the fiction it's trivial to break up big purchases. Paying scouts to find good land for your keep. Paying an architect to draw up plans for your keep. Paying workers to clear the site. Etc.

I love this setup because it does three great things that most other versions don't.

One, is solves the problem of even relatively low-level PCs having mountains of gold and almost nothing to spend it on. Now they do. This creates a money sink. Problem solved.

Two, it encourages roleplaying and worldbuilding from the players. They spend gold to create things in the world, foster relationships with NPCs, get a reputation as a partier, etc. Players insular and don't engage with the world or NPCs beyond what's absolutely necessary? This creates a reason for them to engage more. Problem solved.

Three, it emulates the old sword & sorcery fiction that I love. The characters in most of those old stories would strike it rich, spend it like mad, then be forced to go out on a job because they were broke. That cycle doesn't exist, really, without this kind of setup. And I absolutely love that style of fiction. Problem solved.

 

[Xenolith234]

Frivolous is a good word here.

The version I've used for years is a bit more open, but includes what you have here. It's also the only way to get XP, so feel free to alter or tweak it as you desire.

Basically, you find gold as normal in old-school D&D. Instead of gaining XP for finding gold, you get XP for spending gold, as you have here. Instead of just on frivolous stuff, it can be spent on anything that's not a direct mechanical benefit to the PCs. So not for buying a new sword or suit or armor, but yes for a long list of non-mechanical things. And no buying a sword to gift to another PC or other nonsense like that.

In my games it's been a lot of carousing, bribing officials, paying taxes, tithing to churches, building shrines, training, buying a boat, building a keep, etc.

For bigger purchases and long-term projects, just treat it like an installment plan. It's a big clock. You can pay to progress the clock and once it's done, you get the thing. In the fiction it's trivial to break up big purchases. Paying scouts to find good land for your keep. Paying an architect to draw up plans for your keep. Paying workers to clear the site. Etc.

I love this setup because it does three great things that most other versions don't.

One, is solves the problem of even relatively low-level PCs having mountains of gold and almost nothing to spend it on. Now they do. This creates a money sink. Problem solved.

Two, it encourages roleplaying and worldbuilding from the players. They spend gold to create things in the world, foster relationships with NPCs, get a reputation as a partier, etc. Players insular and don't engage with the world or NPCs beyond what's absolutely necessary? This creates a reason for them to engage more. Problem solved.

Three, it emulates the old sword & sorcery fiction that I love. The characters in most of those old stories would strike it rich, spend it like mad, then be forced to go out on a job because they were broke. That cycle doesn't exist, really, without this kind of setup. And I absolutely love that style of fiction. Problem solved.

Do you keep the same XP advancement table as default 5e? What coin to XP ratio do you use?

 

[Composer99]

OP, if they're not already one of your inspirations, you might want to check out the carousing rules from Shadowdark, which allow adventurers to spend gold to gain XP.

 

[overgeeked]

Do you keep the same XP advancement table as default 5e? What coin to XP ratio do you use?

This was for old-school, TSR-era D&D. So OD&D through AD&D 2E. Not sure how it would work for 5E. You'd probably want the early levels to have a higher ratio, like 2 gold per 1 XP or something, but then shift back to 1:1. Maybe tier 1 at 2:1 and the rest at 1:1. But I haven't tried it with 5E. So that's just a guess.

 

[overgeeked]

OP, if they're not already one of your inspirations, you might want to check out the carousing rules from Shadowdark, which allow adventurers to spend gold to gain XP.

Another great source is Pirate Borg. The core book has some great carousing charts. Pirate themed, of course.

 

[Tigris]

OP, if they're not already one of your inspirations, you might want to check out the carousing rules from Shadowdark, which allow adventurers to spend gold to gain XP.

Why? What does it different than what OP has?

its not like this is a complex mechanic. Just becauase a game has the same mechanic does not mean its worth wasting time looking it up there.

 

[Fenris-77]

A mid-range way to go is the one Shadowdark takes where you do get XP for gold, but it's also tied to a carousing table where you get additional benefits if you do some frivolous spending when you get back to town.