Instakill Mechanics in TTRPGs

The problem is that you have to have the reward be pretty massive if "fairly high probability of death" is the trade off. Having a reward that big on the even semi-regular creates its own problems.

It's on brand in a survival-ish game, where you might regularly be in dire need of clean water, medical supplies, et cetera, and therefore seriously consider engaging with that group of armed civilians who might be willing to trade supplies or information.

For others... well, one of the general guidelines for a lot of campaigns -- even in systems that aren't heroic fantasy, like Call of Cthulhu -- is that any player-created characters have some base inclination to engage in the challenges. Maybe it's curiosity, maybe they're driven to engage due to some mysterious past experience, maybe it's a sense of duty perhaps combined with terror at the possible outcomes if nobody steps up, maybe they're taking risks just because a client is paying them handsomely to do so... but if a party regularly refuses to investigate things that are unnerving and scary, you don't actually have a game (or at least, not the one that was probably intended by the system designers; I mean, if your players would rather spend the next few hours having their characters chit-chat over pastries in a nearby coffee shop, do you actually need to be playing Call of Cthulhu?).
 

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Well, that "1-in-10 chance" system does have the advantage of "The winners of a fight generally come out unscathed" falling out naturally, vs a hit point system where recovery to full hit points after every fight feels artificial, no matter how necessary or desirable it may be.
This is especially helpful if you want magical healing of quasi-wounds to be less common.
The drawback is that it's a "save or suck" system extended to combat, with all the problems, complaints, and strong incentives to apply distortions that come with save-or-suck systems.
I think it makes perfect sense to have something analogous to field position in American football to track how the fight’s going, but it probably shouldn’t be “damage” that needs “healing”.
 

I have been working on a TTRPG of my own (who hasn't?), and one interesting hurdle I bumped into was how to make the rules facilitate a satisfying assassin playstyle. That is, for a character to be able to sneak up on a creature and swiftly and silently take them out in a single, well-prepared moment.

Sure, you can simply have a rogue/assassin character deal a decent amount of damage in a single hit (a-la D&D5e sneak attack), but the amount of bonus damage is typically not enough to kill a guard in a single hit, and that seems necessary for balance reasons. Since the damage is not enough to take them out instantly, they can then call for help and your assault feels less like an assassination attempt and more like a decent opener for a combat encounter you were hoping to avoid entirely.

Does anyone have any experience with instakill rules from other TTRPGs? Did they allow assassin-type PCs to really feel like assassins, or did the instakills feel cheesy and unbalanced? Are instakill rules even wise to have in TTRPGs, or are they too prone to being abused?
I would do it by level. The assassin, if unnoticed and not in initiative, can auto-kill an X level opponent with (blank) attack. This limits it to maybe 5th level assassins being able to kill 1 HD or 2 HD creatures, but only when not in initiative. So, it will give them the cool "sneak up and slit their throat effect," but relegate it to lower-level NPCs or creatures, and also keep it out of combat. (Which could only lead to abuse.)
 


It's on brand in a survival-ish game, where you might regularly be in dire need of clean water, medical supplies, et cetera, and therefore seriously consider engaging with that group of armed civilians who might be willing to trade supplies or information.

Yeah, but in a heavy survival game, effectively no one has any choice. Its not "Do I want to take this chance?" Its "Which risk of death do I want?"

For others... well, one of the general guidelines for a lot of campaigns -- even in systems that aren't heroic fantasy, like Call of Cthulhu -- is that any player-created characters have some base inclination to engage in the challenges. Maybe it's curiosity, maybe they're driven to engage due to some mysterious past experience, maybe it's a sense of duty perhaps combined with terror at the possible outcomes if nobody steps up, maybe they're taking risks just because a client is paying them handsomely to do so... but if a party regularly refuses to investigate things that are unnerving and scary, you don't actually have a game (or at least, not the one that was probably intended by the system designers; I mean, if your players would rather spend the next few hours having their characters chit-chat over pastries in a nearby coffee shop, do you actually need to be playing Call of Cthulhu?).

I'd suggest the problem there is that if you make combat too high-risk, people go to what add up to excessive levels of avoidance to do almost anything else. They may not stop trying to address the problem, but it can essentially make combat a solution they only choose when its forced upon them, and the player better be very clear that's going to be the situation from the get-go.

This doesn't mean some people won't just shrug and accept that at least early on their characters may be semi-disposable--people played low level OD&D and starting RuneQuest after all--but a lot of people's lines are considerbly lower than that about acceptable risk, and those were at least games where there were some ways to mitigate it.
 

This is why posturing is so popular. If I know you don’t want to risk a fight, I can get what I want, just by looking less reluctant.

That has a tendency to make success or failure turn, essentially, on one roll. I'm not sure most players are more thrilled about that than losing their character.

(And of course if it fails, it may fail you into a fight anyway given how cruddy most games mechanics for fleeing are).
 

I'd suggest the problem there is that if you make combat too high-risk, people go to what add up to excessive levels of avoidance to do almost anything else. They may not stop trying to address the problem, but it can essentially make combat a solution they only choose when its forced upon them, and the player better be very clear that's going to be the situation from the get-go.
Shouldn't combat be high risk though? If it isn't then it's no different than playing rock, paper, scissors to decide the outcome of something. High risk combat also means that Players will only participate in it if the stakes are worth the risk which really helps stop things like murderhobo behavior where Players deal with everything with violence because there is no risk involved.
This doesn't mean some people won't just shrug and accept that at least early on their characters may be semi-disposable--people played low level OD&D and starting RuneQuest after all--but a lot of people's lines are considerbly lower than that about acceptable risk, and those were at least games where there were some ways to mitigate it.
I know for myself playing a game like D&D beyond the lowest levels render combat an absolutely boring endeavor because of how low risk it is, it feels like a complete waste of time. Why would I want to spend a large portion of a session adjudicating something that takes only a few minutes of in game time when the outcome is obvious from the get go? Low risk combat is pointless IMHO.
That has a tendency to make success or failure turn, essentially, on one roll. I'm not sure most players are more thrilled about that than losing their character.
Success and failure of a lot of things in TTRPG play is decided on a single roll.
(And of course if it fails, it may fail you into a fight anyway given how cruddy most games mechanics for fleeing are).
That's easily fixed if the GM just allows fleeing to be a thing that works. If you look at military history almost no battles ever end up in one side being completely wiped out because when one side begins to flee the winning side LET'S THEM! See my comments above about high risk combat and consider how that would make it a good idea for even those winning a combat to want it to end ASAP and allowing the losers to flee means eliminating the possibility that a pursued enemy gets a lucky hit that kills you.

High risk combat means you can actually get somewhat realistic behaviors out of those participating in combat. Low risk combat means you get the weird behaviors that just about everyone complains about, like enemies that pursue fleeing opponents non-stop and the infamous murderhoboism where everything gets dealt with using violence.
 

Shouldn't combat be high risk though?
Why?
What specific goals does combat being high risk serve, and do we consider them important?
If it isn't then it's no different than playing rock, paper, scissors to decide the outcome of something.
I'm not sure how. That's combat without any decision-points on the part of the player. If the outcome is random, then it is like rock, paper, scissors. If the outcome is not random (be it high- or low- risk), then I'm not sure how the analogy applies.
High risk combat also means that Players will only participate in it if the stakes are worth the risk which really helps stop things like murderhobo behavior where Players deal with everything with violence because there is no risk involved.

I know for myself playing a game like D&D beyond the lowest levels render combat an absolutely boring endeavor because of how low risk it is, it feels like a complete waste of time. Why would I want to spend a large portion of a session adjudicating something that takes only a few minutes of in game time when the outcome is obvious from the get go? Low risk combat is pointless IMHO.
What I have seen is that D&D is the game where 'roll for initiative' (or the equivalent cue that combat is about to start) evokes a sense of excitement in the players. In games (like mid-high tech-level GURPS or others) where combat is highly risky and loss of (a time consuming to create) character life is a routine possibility, that cue instead evokes anxiety.

And that's really my takeaway distinction. If you are looking for a escapist fantasy where you are looking for your character to get into death-defying situations (and who are we to curate the escapist fantasies of others?), then you pick one where someone can regularly do so and maybe actually succeed. If your escapist fantasy is succeeding in a hostile world by avoiding realistically dangerous situations (perhaps testing your competence towards achieving your goals while successfully doing so), then you might pick one where reckless behavior is not rewarded. Nothing more, nothing less.

That's easily fixed if the GM just allows fleeing to be a thing that works. If you look at military history almost no battles ever end up in one side being completely wiped out because when one side begins to flee the winning side LET'S THEM!
That's really not well supported by history. Sure, few complete wipe-outs, but in general a huge percentage of casualties are after one side or the other routes and then they are absolutely devastated by the side that held (a huge portion of the value of cavalry being exactly that).

Regardless, realism, by itself, is not a goal unless one chooses to make it one.
 

Shouldn't combat be high risk though? If it isn't then it's no different than playing rock, paper, scissors to decide the outcome of something. High risk combat also means that Players will only participate in it if the stakes are worth the risk which really helps stop things like murderhobo behavior where Players deal with everything with violence because there is no risk involved.

Should it? I realize its not entirely parallel, but there were mercenary units that made their pay off of combat during most of history and presumably did so somewhat regularly, and the good ones had to become good somehow, and just drilling wasn't going to do it. Now of course there was always going to be some attrition there, but it couldn't be so common that the whole process was an idiots game.

Some risk is good if you want an authentic feeling game. "High" risk I think turns the dial over to the point that, barring being forced to it, you wonder why anyone ever becomes a warrior in the first place, let alone lives long enough to get good at it.


I know for myself playing a game like D&D beyond the lowest levels render combat an absolutely boring endeavor because of how low risk it is, it feels like a complete waste of time. Why would I want to spend a large portion of a session adjudicating something that takes only a few minutes of in game time when the outcome is obvious from the get go? Low risk combat is pointless IMHO.

Some people simply enjoy the process. If you're not one of those you're not, but I wouldn't project your perception here on everyone.


Success and failure of a lot of things in TTRPG play is decided on a single roll.

Not in the "Do we fail completely at this whole thing we're trying to do" sense. When it does, I'm unconvinced most players like that either.

That's easily fixed if the GM just allows fleeing to be a thing that works.

Most GMs are going to use the mechanics they're given in this regard. If those mechanics don't support fleeing, its not going to happen. And in most games they don't; too much opposition is actually faster than the PCs. A few games have dedicated chase mechanics that can help here, but its not uncommon by the time someone gets to that sort of game they've been taught so thoroughly in other games that it won't work that they won't even think to do it.

If you look at military history almost no battles ever end up in one side being completely wiped out because when one side begins to flee the winning side LET'S THEM!

The problem in RPGs is most players have learned that's just a way to have the fleeing opponents hit them again later, possibly with reinforcements. So it ends up being, at best, a one way idea. And of course that's not counting the type of opposition that has no motive to allow the PCs to flee, like undead or robots.

See my comments above about high risk combat and consider how that would make it a good idea for even those winning a combat to want it to end ASAP and allowing the losers to flee means eliminating the possibility that a pursued enemy gets a lucky hit that kills you.

And see my response to it.

High risk combat means you can actually get somewhat realistic behaviors out of those participating in combat. Low risk combat means you get the weird behaviors that just about everyone complains about, like enemies that pursue fleeing opponents non-stop and the infamous murderhoboism where everything gets dealt with using violence.

I think when the risk gets high enough, it creates just as unrealistic a reactions in other directions unless the PCs are compelled into combat, and usually they aren't.
 

The problem is that you have to have the reward be pretty massive if "fairly high probability of death" is the trade off. Having a reward that big on the even semi-regular creates its own problems.
If there is indeed a "fairly high probability of death" on a "semi-regular" basis, then you are playing an uncommon style of game that I personally do not enjoy. Generally when I ask my group about how often character death might occur, the response is 1-2 every year of play. So for me, "fairly high" would be 3 a year. With 5 players playing about 20 sessions a year, that's a 3% chance of death a session per player.

I also get the impression you are thinking of D&D style rewards (XP, magic items, gold) as the reward for risking death. Those are typically not the stakes that our group considers worth risking death for -- they are more likely to be roleplaying rewards (impressing a patron or love interest, political gain, ... even just showing off!)

I am just finishing up The Great Pendragon Campaign, and we had a couple of random deaths over the three year period, generally players looking for glory in battle. But the most dangerous encounters were all about role-playing rewards:
  • One knight's lady asked him to prove his love by slaying a dragon (an oldie but goldie!)
  • They wanted paganism to stop being squished by Christianity, and this led to a few exciting activities.
  • Duty to their king / lord
  • They just hated this one guy.
I guess it depends on your group, but for me it has not been a problem defining mostly roleplaying rewards worth a fairly high probability of death of abut 3% per session. YMMV, of course.
 

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