Instakill Mechanics in TTRPGs

Easy PC death certainly asks for player buy-in, anyway. Some will be perfectly fine with systems where a high mortality rate is entirely plausible and where combat is meant to be extremely deadly -- perhaps survivors may still suffer lasting harm, whether physical or mental; taken very seriously; and approached with preparation to stack the deck in one's favor as much as possible, if combat is deemed necessary. Others, not so much. Compare Delta Green vs Dungeons and Dragons 5E, for instance.

On a related note, one of the more common complaints I've seen about the latter is about how fights take too long and that hit point bloat is part of that. But, if you're designing a system where you expect heroic, epic set-piece battles, well, that probably comes with the territory. Bypassing a "boss fight" by plane shifting it somewhere far away or imprisoning it in a forcecage is a bit anticlimactic.
 

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So for example, Storm Troopers in my Star Wars RPG are pretty darn hard to kill and will normally take several blaster bolts to die.
See, and this is something I couldn't stand if it were to happen in a Star Wars TTRPG. Every single piece of media with Stormtroopers in it has them dying after a single hit. The idea of having Stormtroopers being able to take multiple blaster shots is anathema to all their portrayals on screen. This was one of the biggest reasons why I absolutely hated the d20 versions of the Star Wars TTRPGs. Stormtroopers die after a single shot, I've seen it happen dozens if not hundreds of times. IMHO if Stormtroopers don't die after taking a single hit in a TTRPG then we aren't playing Star Wars, we are playing some weird alternate universe thing that looks like Star Wars, but isn't.
 

Easy PC death certainly asks for player buy-in, anyway. Some will be perfectly fine with systems where a high mortality rate is entirely plausible and where combat is meant to be extremely deadly -- perhaps survivors may still suffer lasting harm, whether physical or mental; taken very seriously; and approached with preparation to stack the deck in one's favor as much as possible, if combat is deemed necessary. Others, not so much. Compare Delta Green vs Dungeons and Dragons 5E, for instance.

On a related note, one of the more common complaints I've seen about the latter is about how fights take too long and that hit point bloat is part of that. But, if you're designing a system where you expect heroic, epic set-piece battles, well, that probably comes with the territory. Bypassing a "boss fight" by plane shifting it somewhere far away or imprisoning it in a forcecage is a bit anticlimactic.
The biggest reason I like systems where characters can die in a single hit is because it actually makes people leery to get in to combat. It makes players much more likely to seek out solutions that don't involve combat. It also means that when players do choose combat as the solution, the stakes are sufficiently important enough to make the risk worth it. In low lethality games players enter combat for no real reason whatsoever, which is basically why the murder hobo phenomena exists.
 

See, and this is something I couldn't stand if it were to happen in a Star Wars TTRPG. Every single piece of media with Stormtroopers in it has them dying after a single hit. The idea of having Stormtroopers being able to take multiple blaster shots is anathema to all their portrayals on screen. This was one of the biggest reasons why I absolutely hated the d20 versions of the Star Wars TTRPGs. Stormtroopers die after a single shot, I've seen it happen dozens if not hundreds of times. IMHO if Stormtroopers don't die after taking a single hit in a TTRPG then we aren't playing Star Wars, we are playing some weird alternate universe thing that looks like Star Wars, but isn't.
100% agree. While the text says that stormtroopers are the Imperial elite and excellent marksmen, the displayed reality is that they’re just pulp mooks who couldn’t hit a PC at 30 yards if their lives depended on it and whose armour does literally nothing to protect them from PC blasters. Yes, they always go down after a single hit and almost always miss*; if these are the Imperial elite I feel very sorry for the rest.

*Yes, of course in ANH they may be missing deliberately in that one scene. But they have so many chances to shine in the other films and it’s clear that not being able to hit the broad side of a skyscraper is their default level of accuracy.
 

Regarding seeing this at the table: I believe a common house rule (or at least one used by teh GM in the game I played) for 4e was "minionization." Since you already have the minion template (any direct hit kills a minion), sneaking up using the standard stealth rules would allow you to try and make an attack against a Standard opponent. On a successful attack, you lost your stealth but the standard was "minionized" or killed in a single hit.

I believe Elites/Solos were excluded from this rule, but it worked really well within the context of the existing skill check + combat rules.
 

See, and this is something I couldn't stand if it were to happen in a Star Wars TTRPG. Every single piece of media with Stormtroopers in it has them dying after a single hit. The idea of having Stormtroopers being able to take multiple blaster shots is anathema to all their portrayals on screen. This was one of the biggest reasons why I absolutely hated the d20 versions of the Star Wars TTRPGs. Stormtroopers die after a single shot, I've seen it happen dozens if not hundreds of times. IMHO if Stormtroopers don't die after taking a single hit in a TTRPG then we aren't playing Star Wars, we are playing some weird alternate universe thing that looks like Star Wars, but isn't.

OK.

Nevertheless, it doesn't make sense in the slightest if Stormtroopers aren't elite soldiers.

Every portrayal of Stormtroopers you've seen involves the Stormtroopers versus heroic protagonists. This creates an extremely biased perspective.

I suggest you watch Andor if you want a better picture of what Stormtroopers are like from the perspective of the general populace. I'd also suggest that outside of "The Mandalorian" (which I wouldn't consider remotely canonical in my Star Wars universe) your memory of whether Stormtroopers can effectively hit things is probably skewed. There are even youtube videos about this.

The same incidentally is mostly true of Tie Fighters as well. A lot of the lore around them can't easily be sustained from say A New Hope, where they seem about as durable as X-Wings and comparably dangerous.

You'd really hate it when you realize that in my game there are also Veteran Stormtroopers and Elite Stormtroopers (former Clone Troopers, etc.), who would generally be more combat capable than a starting PC.

If I need mooks I have Imperial Troopers, Corporate Security, Battle Droids, gang thugs and so forth for when you want to have PCs slaughter things.
 

OK.

Nevertheless, it doesn't make sense in the slightest if Stormtroopers aren't elite soldiers.

Every portrayal of Stormtroopers you've seen involves the Stormtroopers versus heroic protagonists. This creates an extremely biased perspective.

I suggest you watch Andor if you want a better picture of what Stormtroopers are like from the perspective of the general populace. I'd also suggest that outside of "The Mandalorian" (which I wouldn't consider remotely canonical in my Star Wars universe) your memory of whether Stormtroopers can effectively hit things is probably skewed. There are even youtube videos about this.

The same incidentally is mostly true of Tie Fighters as well. A lot of the lore around them can't easily be sustained from say A New Hope, where they seem about as durable as X-Wings and comparably dangerous.

You'd really hate it when you realize that in my game there are also Veteran Stormtroopers and Elite Stormtroopers (former Clone Troopers, etc.), who would generally be more combat capable than a starting PC.

If I need mooks I have Imperial Troopers, Corporate Security, Battle Droids, gang thugs and so forth for when you want to have PCs slaughter things.
Well, I wasn't the one that said the thing about Stormtroopers not being able to hit anything, that was the other guy. That being said, even in Andor (which I've watched) Stormtroopers die in a single hit, just about everyone does. I have no problem with Stormtroopers having decent marksman skills, but being able to take multiple blaster hits without going down is simply something that never happens. That also ties in to the overall subject of the thread, the instant kill. Whether they face heroic characters, trained soldiers, or armed civilians, Stormtroopers go down when shot one time with a blaster, simple as that. To have a Stormtrooper that doesn't go down after a single blaster hit simply doesn't line up at all with how Stormtroopers are portrayed anywhere in Star Wars media. As always, different strokes for different folks, but if I'm playing a game based on a particular IP, I want the mechanics to produce results that line up with what happens in the respective media.
 

I have been working on a TTRPG of my own (who hasn't?), and one interesting hurdle I bumped into was how to make the rules facilitate a satisfying assassin playstyle. That is, for a character to be able to sneak up on a creature and swiftly and silently take them out in a single, well-prepared moment.
Don't forget flirting with the barista/concierge too! Although that seems to require removing your mask :(

Sure, you can simply have a rogue/assassin character deal a decent amount of damage in a single hit (a-la D&D5e sneak attack), but the amount of bonus damage is typically not enough to kill a guard in a single hit, and that seems necessary for balance reasons. Since the damage is not enough to take them out instantly, they can then call for help and your assault feels less like an assassination attempt and more like a decent opener for a combat encounter you were hoping to avoid entirely.
Damage is often an in-combat rule. Assassins don't engage in combat.

Does anyone have any experience with instakill rules from other TTRPGs? Did they allow assassin-type PCs to really feel like assassins, or did the instakills feel cheesy and unbalanced? Are instakill rules even wise to have in TTRPGs, or are they too prone to being abused?
If I'm running Modos 2, the assassin PC has to do a few things:
1) Have a decent plan.
2) Failing that, get really good rolls.
3) Execute the plan/rolls in a way that doesn't involve the combat rules (which is where Damage lives).
4) Escape before non-assassinated characters can begin combat (react to the situation).

Modos 2 doesn't have instakill rules - it just leans on its fundamentals: roll when the outcome is in doubt, everyone gets a say (but the GM is the law), talk through good and bad outcomes. So it might be wise to have instakill rules if it's happening all the time, or if it could happen to the PCs, but it's not necessary at all.
 

I have been working on a TTRPG of my own (who hasn't?), and one interesting hurdle I bumped into was how to make the rules facilitate a satisfying assassin playstyle. That is, for a character to be able to sneak up on a creature and swiftly and silently take them out in a single, well-prepared moment.
[snip]
Itś not a particularly enjoyable playstyle for groups where it exists. In AD&D, the assassin always wasted a 20-30 minute chunk of time for his solo assasination, leaving everyone else bored for half an hour while they get their solo-kill fantasy fulfilled. Further, every AD&D assassin player I encountered was either doing so as an attempt to do a monk-assassin dual class to represent a ninja, or was a toxic «bleep». Many were both.
Does anyone have any experience with instakill rules from other TTRPGs? Did they allow assassin-type PCs to really feel like assassins, or did the instakills feel cheesy and unbalanced? Are instakill rules even wise to have in TTRPGs, or are they too prone to being abused?
In case you can´t tell, yes, Iǘe GM´d for several. Every one of them was someone I would not game with again...

AD&D, the assassin rules were generally pretty dull to begin with, and not that fast. At the same time, far too many PCs are one weapon hit away from death at level 1 or even 2... and that´s without critical hits. With crits, make that 3rd to 4th level.

I don´t much care for 1 hit = 1 kill being a design goal unless it´s for sniping.. and even then, I don´t want it to take more than twice the time of a normal combat check to resolve.

I tolerate minion rules for their reduction in complexity for large combats and epic feel of mowing the minions down... but I prefer that they not be axiomatically always dead by it.
 

Well, I wasn't the one that said the thing about Stormtroopers not being able to hit anything, that was the other guy. That being said, even in Andor (which I've watched) Stormtroopers die in a single hit, just about everyone does. I have no problem with Stormtroopers having decent marksman skills, but being able to take multiple blaster hits without going down is simply something that never happens. That also ties in to the overall subject of the thread, the instant kill. Whether they face heroic characters, trained soldiers, or armed civilians, Stormtroopers go down when shot one time with a blaster, simple as that. To have a Stormtrooper that doesn't go down after a single blaster hit simply doesn't line up at all with how Stormtroopers are portrayed anywhere in Star Wars media. As always, different strokes for different folks, but if I'm playing a game based on a particular IP, I want the mechanics to produce results that line up with what happens in the respective media.

The problem with this is the lack of hit points in Star Wars D6. If I implement a world where blaster bolts from basically any weapon are actually killing Stormtroopers on a single hit, then the overlap between armored stormtrooper's soak and a PC's soak is pretty strong. In the lore we don't see a lot of protagonists wearing armor, which is fine, we can explain via system mechanics why you might want to avoid heavy armor. But it then creates a world where if blaster bolts are one shotting armored stormtroopers they are very likely to be one shotting PCs as well.

So a solution to this is reframe what you think you are seeing on the screen. You see storm troopers hit by blaster bolts and go down, and it is implied that they died, but not actually said on the screen. We see no injuries usually. Just scorch marks on the armor. So what if the injuries are sub-lethal? In fact, there is a scene in "A New Hope" that seems to (perhaps by accident) validate this interpretation. During the scene where the Falcon is blasting off from Mos Eisley, several Stormtroopers go down, but then in the next shot as the Falcon blasts off, we see several of those downed troopers have stood up and are continuing fire. We could interpret this as a continuity error in the film making, or we could interpret this as stunned or injured soldiers getting back in the fight. After all, we rarely spend a lot of time with any particular stormtrooper. They are only on screen usually for a few seconds. Who is to say that after the heroes run off, half of the "dead" stormtroopers don't get back up, shaken and wounded, but not dead, calling for a medic or getting back into the fight.

That's the interpretation in use in my RPG, because otherwise, if a blaster rifle hitting a stormtrooper is invariably lethal it's going to be lethal pretty darn often to anything less than an armored Wookie.

And worse, if you don't use this interpretation, then you have villain decay and villain decay is lethal to a setting. If you have a "Cobra Commander" problem where the villains are always weak and self-destructing, it becomes impossible to convey any sense of danger and drama. Disney's "sequel" movies and later episodes of The Mandalorian had this problem at a severe level. Whereas something like Andor maintains an RPG like sense of scale, where Stormtroopers and Tie Fighters can be believably lethal and the Empire is shown competent enough that they feel like dangerous antagonists and we have to worry for the protagonists. The failings of the villains are believable enough and human enough that they don't feel exaggerated to "let" the heroes win. I'm not saying Andor's handling of everything is perfect. There are budget limitations that I think sometimes get in the way of presenting the scale of the threat, or the horrors of what is going on, but overall they do a good job.

The other thing to keep in mind is that at the time my campaign is set (now 14 BBY), the rebellion doesn't really exist outside of some disloyal politicians privately talking, some Separatist holdouts, and a few isolated cells like Saw's Partisans, the Ghorman Front, the Justice Action Network, etc. The PCs - Imperial Peacekeepers or "Bounty Hunters" - have been in more firefights where Stormtroopers or Imperial Troopers were allies than they have been in firefights where the Stormtroopers were the opposing side. Stormtroopers are often named NPCs more often than they are mooks. That's probably going to shift over time, as the PC's don't necessarily like the empire and take more illegal jobs from "rebel" groups, but right now Stormtroopers being one shotted just means they'd be both useless allies and useless enemies.
 

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