D&D General Is Appendix N Still Relevant to D&D?

[Reynard]

The announcement of a (two?) new Stormbringer/Elric RPGs got me thinking about whether the original "Appendix N" list of inspirations were still relevant for modern D&D (5E 2014 and 2024).

On the surface it feels like the answer is easily "no" because there seems so little inspired by those various novels now. They helped define the foundation on which early D&D was built, so their influence can still be felt, but I don't feel like they guide the current shape of D&D. However, with the pretty likely scenario that Dark Sun is coming, I pause a little. Of all TSR's settings, Dark Sun is the most like that weird pulp fantasy era found in Appendix N, I think. And while we don't know what shape Dark Sun 5.5E will take exactly, it's mere existence at least suggests the tethers to Appendix N aren't entirely severed yet.

What do you think? Do you see strong current influence of Appendix N in the modern game, beyond just the vestigial connections? If not, do you wish there were more connections to that classic fantasy list?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

There is still a huge amount in D&D that comes from the Elric stories. Law/Chaos axis, the multiverse, sentient magic swords, hexblades, evil elven empires, dodgy killable deities, etc. (and the Hand and Eye of Vecna from Corum).

Now, I don't think it's necessary to know where this stuff comes from in order to enjoy D&D, but just as a scientific paper needs references, there needs to be an available list of references for D&D that people can look back on if they are interested. Of course the original Appendix N had some glaring omissions, such as comics (e.g. Doctor Strange), any writer considered a "children's author" such as CS Lewis, etc.

 

[bedir than]

the original Appendix N is still relevant, but it's not the only relevant list of inspirations anymore

I think every table, every setting and every publishing group should share their appendixes at every opportunity

 

[SothFan]

For those who do not know, what is Appendix N and how is it being used in this discussion. I could look it up, but not understand the connection being made here.

 

[Reynard]

For those who do not kniw, what is Appendix N and how is it being used in this discussion. I coukd look it uo, but not understand the connection being made here.

Oh, sorry about that.

Appendix N is a list of inspirational media -- mostly classic fantasy novels but some sci fi and a few movies, etc -- found in the AD&D 1E DMG. According to Gygax, these were the primary influences on D&D at its inception.

 

[SothFan]

Oh, sorry about that.

Appendix N is a list of inspirational media -- mostly classic fantasy novels but some sci fi and a few movies, etc -- found in the AD&D 1E DMG. According to Gygax, these were the primary influences on D&D at its inception.

Then if he was inspired at inception by it, then I would say no in the same vein of the dad joke. Replace dinosuars below with Gygax, and play baseball with influence D&D, etc.

Why do dinosaurs not play baseball?
Because they are dead.

 

[prabe]

The announcement of a (two?) new Stormbringer/Elric RPGs got me thinking about whether the original "Appendix N" list of inspirations were still relevant for modern D&D (5E 2014 and 2024).

On the surface it feels like the answer is easily "no" because there seems so little inspired by those various novels now. They helped define the foundation on which early D&D was built, so their influence can still be felt, but I don't feel like they guide the current shape of D&D. However, with the pretty likely scenario that Dark Sun is coming, I pause a little. Of all TSR's settings, Dark Sun is the most like that weird pulp fantasy era found in Appendix N, I think. And while we don't know what shape Dark Sun 5.5E will take exactly, it's mere existence at least suggests the tethers to Appendix N aren't entirely severed yet.

What do you think? Do you see strong current influence of Appendix N in the modern game, beyond just the vestigial connections? If not, do you wish there were more connections to that classic fantasy list?

I think the idea that people who play (and especially people who run) TRPGs are influenced by the fiction they read and watch is still very relevant; the fact many of them are being inspired by fiction other than what Gygax and his circle were seems ... like a thing--though the extensive influences list in the Tales of the Valiant Game Master's Guide seems to belie the idea that no one is interested in or influenced by older fiction.

 

[Reynard]

Then if he was inspired at inception by it, then I would say no in the same vein of the dad joke. Replace dinosuars below with Gygax, and play baseball with influence D&D, etc.

Why do dinosaurs not play baseball?
Because they are dead.

I mean LOTS of people that started with AD&D 1E are still playing D&D.

 

[Reynard]

I think the idea that people who play (and especially people who run) TRPGs are influenced by the fiction they read and watch is still very relevant; the fact many of them are being inspired by fiction other than what Gygax and his circle were seems ... like a thing--though the extensive influences list in the Tales of the Valiant Game Master's Guide seems to belie the idea that no one is interested in or influenced by older fiction.

I am not familair with that list, so I am not sure if you are saying they include a lot of that older stuff as well as newer stuff, or if most of that older stuff is gone.

There's no question that Appendix N is not the only thing influencing modern D&D so I don't think it is worthwhile discussion in this thread.

 

[SothFan]

If not, do you wish there were more connections to that classic fantasy list?

This is a hard question. Is classic fantasy needed for improv acting that is what seems to be modern D&D? No.

If you want a classic game, then look at classic media. For modern games I think you should look at modern media.

The activity will mimic its influences.