D&D General Is Appendix N Still Relevant to D&D?

[Cordwainer Fish]

TAS isn't even really posited as the future, to my recollection. It's set in the present day, isn't it? As Ralif said, techno-thriller might be the best term for it.

Except that it can't be techno-thriller, because Tom Clancy and Larry Bond hadn't invented it yet.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think most folks who don't live in Ukraine would be shocked at how advanced drones are already. We're probably five years away from the "Metalhead" episode of Black Mirror. Thirty years from now? I don't think we have any good analogues to compare it to.

Funny how extended warfare in countries with decent technological capabilities tends to force advancements in same.

 

[CharlesWallace]

I think most folks who don't live in Ukraine would be shocked at how advanced drones are already. We're probably five years away from the "Metalhead" episode of Black Mirror. Thirty years from now? I don't think we have any good analogues to compare it to.

This makes me wonder how advanced drones are right now. Are you thinking of a specific article or something you can point to? I'm not challenging your point so much as curious to see where they're at.

 

[Autumnal]

Reading and commentary resumes. My oldest brother didn’t die of a stroke this week. He did have a nasty episode that included vomit (his own) in his lungs and several days intubated to let his body breathe and mend, but it’s stuff you reliably recovery from. I have a goodly chunk of brain back.

Random thought: every genre is basically three raccoons in a trench coat. Writers go “oh, hey, I can stick this together with these and pull stories out of them”, readers go “9j, I like that, gimme more of that”, publishers notice, and you’ve got a genre. It matters, that folks like Howard, Leiber, Moore, and Moorcock were all enthusiastic students of history and folded it into their talespinners. We’ve seen fantasy adventuring without that well of inspirations, and to me it generally comes across as just a couple of raccoons in a coat.

It would be fun to make a reader’s guide to old and new fantasy in terms of each style’s raccoons. Then you could see that, ah, these authors are now outfitting this pair of raccoons and that one from the shelf over, and think that there’s a decent chance that these books will scratch that itch.

 

[Reynard]

This makes me wonder how advanced drones are right now. Are you thinking of a specific article or something you can point to? I'm not challenging your point so much as curious to see where they're at.

I just listened to a Throughline from a couple weeks ago. The first attempt at a drone was in 1917. Crazy.

 

[Thomas Shey]

This makes me wonder how advanced drones are right now. Are you thinking of a specific article or something you can point to? I'm not challenging your point so much as curious to see where they're at.

From what I can tell, its less advancements of the drone themselves than having learned to apply even relativeley cheap ones in a way that plays immensely to their strengths. While there have been some advances, mostly its tactical and operation implimentation that, frankly, no one with major access to drones and a still semi-functional industry to make more has had reason to do before.

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

Reading and commentary resumes. My oldest brother didn’t die of a stroke this week. He did have a nasty episode that included vomit (his own) in his lungs and several days intubated to let his body breathe and mend, but it’s stuff you reliably recovery from. I have a goodly chunk of brain back.

Sorry to hear that. Errr... not the brain bit. But, that is terrible about your brother. I hope he mends soon.

"Raccoons in a coat" I like that. Gonna steal that.

 

[SothFan]

every genre is basically three raccoons in a trench coat. Writers go “oh, hey, I can stick this together with these and pull stories out of them”, readers go “Oh, I like that, gimme more of that”, publishers notice, and you’ve got a genre. It matters, that folks like Howard, Leiber, Moore, and Moorcock were all enthusiastic students of history and folded it into their talespinners. We’ve seen fantasy adventuring without that well of inspirations, and to me it generally comes across as just a couple of raccoons in a coat.

Interesting analogy to trash pandas. Quite apt, because it implies the dumpster diving for random trash and just putting a new coat of paint on it, has no soul, no communal or ancestral connection to the reader, but just a freshly painted pile of trash. I like it.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Reading and commentary resumes. My oldest brother didn’t die of a stroke this week. He did have a nasty episode that included vomit (his own) in his lungs and several days intubated to let his body breathe and mend, but it’s stuff you reliably recovery from. I have a goodly chunk of brain back.

Random thought: every genre is basically three raccoons in a trench coat. Writers go “oh, hey, I can stick this together with these and pull stories out of them”, readers go “9j, I like that, gimme more of that”, publishers notice, and you’ve got a genre. It matters, that folks like Howard, Leiber, Moore, and Moorcock were all enthusiastic students of history and folded it into their talespinners. We’ve seen fantasy adventuring without that well of inspirations, and to me it generally comes across as just a couple of raccoons in a coat.

It would be fun to make a reader’s guide to old and new fantasy in terms of each style’s raccoons. Then you could see that, ah, these authors are now outfitting this pair of raccoons and that one from the shelf over, and think that there’s a decent chance that these books will scratch that itch.

Just about every genre has precedents that it built on. Which is why I'd say Appendix N is still relevant - those works are still inspiring people writing today.

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

Just about every genre has precedents that it built on. Which is why I'd say Appendix N is still relevant - those works are still inspiring people writing today.

I mean, that's the basic definition of genre isn't it? We find a group of works that have a similar grouping of trope and theme and call it a genre. And genre is really, really porous. We can easily (usually) define the middle of the genre, but, the further out you get from those core, genre defining works, the more difficult it gets to place something.

Look at the discussion about Conan. To me, it's really obvious that Conan would be labeled under YA fiction. It's high adventure, very little in the way of any sort of mature themes, no gore, little or no sex and nothing in it is graphic in nature. And, the fact that it's original appearance in Weird Tales cements it as solidly (in my mind at least) YA fiction.

This is the cover of the Weird Tales issue that Conan first appears in:

Buccaneers of Venus? That's pretty solidly YA in my mind.

But, all that being said, genre is constantly evolving. That's how it works. Every work in a genre changes that genre. Themes and tropes that were considered core to the genre at one time might not be later on as works begin pulling in different directions in order to tread new ground. And that's always a good thing. A genre that doesn't start exploring new ground stagnates and dies.

I might not like this or that work in a given genre. That's just taste. Taste isn't all that important really. The mistake people make, IMO, is conflating taste with quality. "I don't like it, therefore it's bad" or "I don't like it, therefore, it shouldn't be part of the genre" is where most of the problems start. That's where gatekeeping starts.