D&D General Is D&D Beyond Exclusivity Bad for D&D?

[SothFan]

Unless playing an artificer is somehow central to the play described in the book, I don't see what the issue is. If you don't have the FoE book, you won't be playing an artificer. Fortunately there are a dozen other options if you have the PHB. Even if you do have the FoE book there's no guarantee anyone will play an artificer. It's just a nice benefit if you do.

If you can not use it, it should not be featured in the promotional material of the book as though you can. If it requites a book you can no longer buy, or only get only the website that is misleading advertising, and could border on fraud.

7 subclasses (including the new Reanimator and Hollow Warden), 4 species, 4 backgrounds, 2 Origin feats, and 9 Dark Gifts for building tortured protagonists.

While it does not say Artificer here, it does say reanimator which, according to the game show as played by Neil Newhon, it is an Artificer.

I do not know how these classes work so maybe ask the "Lazy RPG Talk Show" guy about his video.

 

[AlViking]

If you can not use it, it should not be featured in the promotional material of the book as though you can. If it requites a book you can no longer buy, or only get only the website that is misleading advertising, and could border on fraud.

Did the promotional material (I'm not familiar with it) state that included all the rules for the artificer or just that it included new classes - including one for the artificer? I did a quick search and the only things I've seen is that it will include subclasses including the "reanimator artificer" [1]. Seems pretty clear to me.

While it does not say Artificer her, it does say reanimator which, according to the game show as played by Neil Newhon, it is an Artificer.

I fo not know how these classes work so maybe ask the "Lazy RPG Talk Show" guy about his video.

According to you the new Ravenloft book is "unethical" because provided a subclass for artificers but not the rules for the artificer class. Then logically there would have been no issue if the book had not provided the subclass for artificers.

No one is going to buy an entire book solely for that subclass. If someone has the rules for the artificer class and buys the book they get a potential get a small benefit. If they don't have the rules for the artificer class they're not going to be playing one anyway so there is no loss of value for the rest of the book.

Everything I've been able to find talking about the book is clear that it will include new subclasses, it makes no mention of including the entire class. Would it have been nice to include the artificer class? I suppose. It would have been nice to include a copy of all the core classes from the PHB so you didn't have to buy that to play the Hollow Ward Range either. Is it false advertising or misleading in any way? No.

 

[SothFan]

No one is going to buy an entire book solely for that subclass

From what I have been reading and seeing in videos, says that is wrong. It seems many people are willing to buy a book for one thing in it and the rest of the book goes unused. The "ethical" people that is, while others will do it the unethical way to get it; others still will not buy anything and use an SRD.

It would have been nice to include a copy of all the core classes from the PHB so you didn't have to buy that to play the Hollow Ward Range either.

I refer back to the Lazy RPG Talk Show guy. That is something he would be more ready to discuss, but my understanding is:

You get 1 book you must buy as a player or use an SRD. Then it was that any book you bought would add full details for one of these new classes. It seems this book changed that? He claims several times he works with Wizards and gets promotional matetial. Either that is a boilerplate disclaimer, or due to repeated mention in those 5 minutes, he has the product but must be under NDA until street date to reveal contents. What he revealed, however, was lack of contents he feels should have been present.

 

[AlViking]

From what I have been reading and seeing in videos, says that is wrong. It seems many people are willing to buy a book for one thing in it and the rest of the book goes unused. The "ethical" people that is, while others will do it the unethical way to get it; others still will not buy anything and use an SRD.

Everything I've read clearly states it's a subclass. There is nothing deceitful about it. If people don't understand the difference between a class and subclass it's on them.

 

[SothFan]

Everything I've read clearly states it's a subclass. There is nothing deceitful about it. If people don't understand the difference between a class and subclass it's on them.

I thought that was the point of the new game videos to have the instructional pop ups to teach new players, while yes it is on the consumer, caveat emptor, the product does not make it clear to a new consumer what is different from a class or subclass.

Surely, I could not tell you!
(I know, do not call you Shirley. )

 

[AlViking]

I thought that was the point of the new game videos to have the instructional pop ups to teach new players, while yes it is on the consumer, caveat emptor, the product does not make it clear to a new consumer what is different from a class or subclass.

Surely, I could not tell you!
(I know, do not call you Shirley. )

I know there used to be confusion with things like calling a book that expanded on the PHB the PHB 2 which is why they stopped doing that. But if you're buying the Ravnica book, I assume you know how the game works and the difference between a class and subclass. If anything had said they were providing a Reanimator class it would be an issue. They didn't say that though.

This is just one of those things I simply don't see any "there" there. It's not buyer beware, it's just basic knowledge of the terms used by the game.

 

[SothFan]

It's not buyer beware, it's just basic knowledge of the terms used by the game

This is the same thing, if a buyer is not aware of the terms used by the game.

You are not wrong IF you assume everyone who purchases this book is a current player of the game, but what about those purchasing as a gift. They know to buy the new D&D and ask for it and get this book. The store does not tell them they need a set of 3 other books to play. Target employees have to much other mess to deal with than keep up with every niche hobby, and Amazon suggests you buy 7 different books, 2 for other games, and a dishwasher; while you try to buy this new book.

There is a lot to know for someone just buying a gift.

 

[AlViking]

This is the same thing, if a buyer is not aware of the terms used by the game.

You are not wrong IF you assume everyone who purchases this book is a current player of the game, but what about those purchasing as a gift. They know to buy the new D&D and ask for it and get this book. The store does not tell them they need a set of 3 other books to play. Target employees have to much other mess to deal with than keep up with every niche hobby, and Amazon suggests you buy 7 different books, 2 for other games, and a dishwasher; while you try to buy this new book.

There is a lot to know for someone just buying a gift.

We disagree. If you play D&D you know what a subclass is. No one should be buying a Ravenloft book without also having the PHB - it would be pretty useless if you did. The book tells you on the back page that you need the PHB.

If you know enough about the book that you know that it includes specific subclasses I find it difficult to believe you don't know how to play the game or at the very least google "What does subclass mean". By your standard, we could never have any expansions at all. Every expansion relies on having at least the PHB or the free basic rules.

 

[SlyFlourish]

I think you are all missing something from his video. If I remember, he prefers the main books +1 model.

So having to buy another book means he feels scammed, even though many buy books just to read and never use. (That is how video people with shelves of books describe a majority of the books.)

His products are as "The Lazy Dungeon Master". So part of being lazy is not only buying fewer books, but reading fewer books to get the content you seek. So he is cheap AND lazy both.

How this relates to exclusivity I forgot.

I want the Artificer included in the 5.2 SRD under a CC license. I think it benefits everyone including WOTC to do so.

 

[SlyFlourish]

Mod Note:
When a moderator tells you to check the rules, it behooves you to ACTUALLY check the rules.

If you had, you'd also have learned that moderators will not entertain argument about moderation in-thread. Moderation is not an invitation to have a public discussion - it is a time to listen up before you get into more serious trouble.

"Don't insult people. For instance, don't call them cheap and lazy," should not be confusing.

I'm totally ok with lazy. It is my brand after all.

Cheap? Man, tell that to my credit cards...

Anyway, thanks for having my back.