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Message: <blockquote data-quote="airwalkrr" data-source="post: 3334596" data-attributes="member: 12460">One of the reasons people typically decry Diplomacy is because of the relatively ease with which one can min/max the modifier. Consider the following core rule example:half elf bard 1Diplomacy 4 ranksCha 15Skill Focus (Diplomacy)We are already at a +11 at 1st level assuming a very moderate build. But that isn't so bad right? I mean, a Dwarf with a 15 Int can have +11 to Craft at 1st level. Let's consider the same bard at 4th level.half elf bard 4: +2Bluff 5 ranks: +2Diplomacy 7 ranks: +7Knowledge (nobility & royalty) 5 ranks: +2Sense Motive 5 ranks: +2Cha 16: +3Skill Focus (Diplomacy): +3Negotiator: +2circlet of persuasion: +3 (if this is his only magic item, it is not so hard to believe he could have it by 4th level)Suddenly, we are at +26. Over the course of three levels he has more than doubled his bonus. However, more significantly, he can take 10 making a rushed Diplomacy check (a -10 penalty to use Diplomacy as a full-round action) and make ANY hostile creature's attitude indifferent automatically. So by 4th level, he has managed to find a way to stop any battle he wants before it even starts. All it takes is a full-round action. What you might find even more obscene is that a half-elf marshal who had just a little luck at character generation can do this at 2nd level.half elf marshal 2: +2Bluff 5 ranks: +2Diplomacy 5 ranks: +5Knowledge (nobility & royalty) 5 ranks: +2Sense Motive 5 ranks: +2Cha 18: +4Motivate Charisma: +4Skill Focus (Diplomacy): +3Negotiator: +2So this slightly better half-elf marshal can end any combat on round 1 without a magic item. It just gets worse when you add in the choker of eloquence and other silly such things. The problem is that Diplomacy rules are much too absolute to be useful. It doesn't offer concrete enough examples about what it is supposed to be used for. So taken literally, it seems like you can make just about anyone your buddy.Of course, as you'll note from my sig, I nip that in the bud by deciding since Diplomacy rules are not precisely defined, that I only have to follow it when I really want to. It serves as a nice guideline, but there are plenty of ways a chaotic evil character can be helpful to you according to his point of view when it does, in fact, nothing to help you. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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