D&D 5E (2024) Is the War Cleric Being Slept On?

[Zardnaar]

Alot of online rating seem to give the war cleric a B ranking or B+ sort of thing. After seeing it in action several times tabletop and BG3 (5.0 and 5.5 mod). To understand where I'm coming from this is what I'm seeing generally.

Starting stats

Wisdom 17
Dexterity 16
Con 14

Add truestrike. If the DM doesn' care to much about RAW add shilleagh into the mix if the DM is a hard ass take a druid level f you want to use it. Rapier and shield or whatever with true strike (elf, magic intiate). Add shield spell if magic initiate is being used. Shields also making its way onto a lot of primary casters and half casters one way or another (multiclass, magic initiate). When I play clerics I usually take something similar as well. I skip heavy armor. Command approach (or halt or prone etc)+spirit guardians

Generally, all attacks are getting keyed off your wisdom, plan B is dexterity via a rapier. You are still a cleric that brings the usual suspects with the new addition of prayer of healing. Guidance, command, healing word, spirit guardians etc. Did I mention spirit guardians

War priest ability now recharges on a short rest. In a 5MWD scenario its functionally 2 attacks a round from level 3 or 4. Outside that its probably closer to two attacks 3/4 (1 short rest every 1-1.5 combats + prayer of healing). With spiritual weapon/war gods blessing it is pretty much two attacks a round if you want it bad enough. On top of spirit it guardians at 5th. And true strike. Possibly shilleagh (ask the DM/take Druid level). AC was around 22 or 23 (+1 shield, shield of faith, not sure about +1 armor) before the shield spell.

I've seen them in action lvl 10-12. As above with an upcast spirit guardians. Side by side with a bladesinger going nova both with precast spells (SG and CMD) level 5 scorching ray looked cute. The cleric cast steel wind strike instead. Then divine intervention for another steel wind strike (bladesinger was out of 5th lvl spells). Steelwind strike also teleports you. With spirit guardians running. Bladesinger started to run out of spells fairly fast war cleric just kept on tanking. At higher level concentration free shield of faith was being used.

I haven't seen a level 13 war cleric in action. I have seen a level 13 cleric use conjure elemental Its as good as everyone says it is. Next game the current knowledge domain player is probably playing a war cleric. She really likes clerics. I may not be the DM though.

 

[ECMO3]

I think B+ is about right compared to other Clerics, but Clerics are a strong class to start with.

Clerics make good tanks generally, I don't know that War Cleric is a lot better than any other Cleric, although in fairness I have not seen them in play. I don't find the extra attack through Warpriest to be that compelling, since it is a normal attack and not a Cantrip. Using Shillelagh would make it a lot better, but that costs a multiclass or a feat and it is a bonus action casting, and so is Shield of Faith and Warpriest. I think you can build to really get a lot out of this, but there are tradeoffs and it is a specific build for it.

Steel Wind Strike is a great offensive damage spell, but Wizards get that too, so I don't know that is a fair comparison when a Wizard chose a pathetically weak option for a 5th level cast. Spirit Guardians beats CME by a country mile in play IME upcast Spellfire Flare is better than Scorching Ray even if you don't have SWS.

What I would ask though is if you think this is a lot better than you could get out of a Trickery, Tempest, Light or Grave domain Cleric purposely built with a similar idea. I am not sure it is.

 

[Retreater]

Nobody* likes playing a cleric.

(*I mean, sure, some outliers exist. But the reason that clerics had lower XP requirements back in the day - no one wanted to play clerics. The reason they had good attacks, armor, and HP - no one wanted to play clerics. My groups have bribed me to play an NPC healbot just so they don't have to play clerics.)

 

[Zardnaar]

Nobody* likes playing a cleric.

(*I mean, sure, some outliers exist. But the reason that clerics had lower XP requirements back in the day - no one wanted to play clerics. The reason they had good attacks, armor, and HP - no one wanted to play clerics. My groups have bribed me to play an NPC healbot just so they don't have to play clerics.)

I've played a few.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think B+ is about right compared to other Clerics, but Clerics are a strong class to start with.

Clerics make good tanks generally, I don't know that War Cleric is a lot better than any other Cleric, although in fairness I have not seen them in play. I don't find the extra attack through Warpriest to be that compelling, since it is a normal attack and not a Cantrip. Using Shillelagh would make it a lot better, but that costs a multiclass or a feat and it is a bonus action casting, and so is Shield of Faith. I think you can build to really get a lot out of this, but there are tradeoffs.

Steel Wind Strike is a great offensive damage spell, but Wizards get that too, so I don't know that is a fair comparison when a Wizard chose a pathetically weak option for a 5th level cast. Spirit Guardians beats CME by a country mile in play IME upcast Spellfire Flare is better than Scorching Ray even if you don't have SWS.

What I would ask though is if you think this is a lot better than you could get out of a Trickery, Tempest, Light or Grave domain Cleric purposely built with a similar idea. I am not sure it is.

They had spellfire flare as well.

 

[ECMO3]

Nobody* likes playing a cleric.

(*I mean, sure, some outliers exist. But the reason that clerics had lower XP requirements back in the day - no one wanted to play clerics. The reason they had good attacks, armor, and HP - no one wanted to play clerics. My groups have bribed me to play an NPC healbot just so they don't have to play clerics.)

I would disagree. Few people like playing healers, but plenty of people like playing Clerics.

I am one of them. I love Clerics, in particular Order and Tempest but I am clear with other players that I will not be a healer toping them up after every battle or healing them every round as they chop up the bad guy.

Don't get me wrong I do cast healing spells on occasion and usually have several prepared (and usually I do when playing a Ranger, Bard or some Warlocks too), but healing is not my defined role in the party .... ever.

 

[ECMO3]

They had spellfire flare as well.

Spellfire Flare is really good with Warcaster as an AOO spell and better if you have Hex or Hunter's Mark to go with it, disadvantage on the attack roll hurts some times, but as far as damaging spells for AOOs it is generally top flight. It is not usually something I use a lot though as an action. About the only use I have for Scorching Ray is if I find a Circlet of Blasting and have an attunement slot available.

Spellfire Flare can't compare with Steelwind Strike though. SWS is just a lot better unless it is a single enemy. 12-120 damage vs 30-300 damage on a 5th level slot. Again if you have Hex to boost SF by 5d6 and it is a single target you are fighting then maybe it is better option, but generally no.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Nobody* likes playing a cleric.

(*I mean, sure, some outliers exist. But the reason that clerics had lower XP requirements back in the day - no one wanted to play clerics. The reason they had good attacks, armor, and HP - no one wanted to play clerics. My groups have bribed me to play an NPC healbot just so they don't have to play clerics.)

This.

Overly religious people are regarded with suspicion, so playing one is an unpopular choice. It’s the theme, not the abilities.

 

[Zardnaar]

I would disagree. Few people like playing healers, but plenty of people like playing Clerics.

I am one of them. I love Clerics, in particular Order and Tempest but I am clear with other players that I will not be a healer toping them up after every battle or healing them every round as they chop up the bad guy.

Don't get me wrong I do cast healing spells on occasion and usually have several prepared (and usually I do when playing a Ranger, Bard or some Warlocks too), but healing is not my defined role in the party .... ever.

I'll heal just generally healing word and prayer of healing.

Use your HD up first.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Nobody* likes playing a cleric.

(*I mean, sure, some outliers exist. But the reason that clerics had lower XP requirements back in the day - no one wanted to play clerics. The reason they had good attacks, armor, and HP - no one wanted to play clerics. My groups have bribed me to play an NPC healbot just so they don't have to play clerics.)

The problem isn't that nobody likes playing "a cleric". LOTS of people like playing supportive characters.

People don't like playing a character whose sole function is "living undo button".

Prior to 3rd edition, that's what most "Priests" and Clerics were. Living undo buttons. I believe the term used at the time was "Brother Bactine", but I think "living undo button" is a more useful encapsulation, because it emphasizes how much that character is merely a tool for the other players. Moreover, they aren't just a tool, they're a particularly uninteresting tool, because all they're doing is reversing, undoing, the things already inflicted on the party, rather than proactively attempting to seize the party's goals.

We need more support characters that can do support AND contribute to ending the fight, in the same turn. Less--though not none--of the support characters whose only function is to remove what was inflicted by the enemy.

But of course, speak of needing to design a "support" in a way that actually makes that particular..."position" enjoyable in and of itself as a gameplay exercise, and you're going to have people up your nose about certain bugaboos.