D&D 5E (2024) Is the War Cleric Being Slept On?

[Not a Decepticon]

War Cleric in 2024 is a great 3-level dip for Fighter because it gives you Guidance (that comboes well with Tactical Mind. You can also get Bless and Channel Divinity gives you Bonus Action Attack. A character that shoots like a machine gun and yet never misses.

 

[Tigris]

War Cleric in 2024 is a great 3-level dip for Fighter because it gives you Guidance (that comboes well with Tactical Mind. You can also get Bless and Channel Divinity gives you Bonus Action Attack. A character that shoots like a machine gun and yet never misses.

At which levels would that be worth it though? Bonus action attack can be get via a feat and many of the good fighter subclasses have uses of bonus actions anyway and also have second wind.

Before level 5 you dont want it because you want extra attack as fast as possible. Level 6-8 brings 2 feats and a good subclass feature, so you dont want to go cleric then.

Level 11 brings an extra attack which does not need a bonus attack, so you dont want to go war cleric then.

Level 12-14 maybe? But thats also 2 feats you give up + a use of indomitable and some small other things.

Feats can give bonus action attack or guidance as well

Most fighter levels feel good in 2024 and war cleric really does no give that much you cant get with other ways, I can see it more for a rogue which uses only a single attack, then getting a tool to get +10 to hit might be worth it.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm not changing anything. Everyone apart from you agrees that war domain is a poor to middling subclass (on a strong base class). I'm saying, sure, but it can still be fun to play.

If you like Steel Wind Strike, you can get it as core on a wizard (with several subclass choices that can give it more mileage). Clerics get plenty of 5th level spells that are at least as good. You can also get it on a bard or high level ranger. College of Spirits Bard can get improved Spirit Guardians, Steel Wind Strike, and damage on bonus action. It's flat better, and it isn't even the best bard.

Wizard doesn't spirit guardians though.

And ive seen the war cleric out perform a wizard with CME.

 

[Zardnaar]

At which levels would that be worth it though? Bonus action attack can be get via a feat and many of the good fighter subclasses have uses of bonus actions anyway and also have second wind.

Before level 5 you dont want it because you want extra attack as fast as possible. Level 6-8 brings 2 feats and a good subclass feature, so you dont want to go cleric then.

Level 11 brings an extra attack which does not need a bonus attack, so you dont want to go war cleric then.

Level 12-14 maybe? But thats also 2 feats you give up + a use of indomitable and some small other things.

Feats can give bonus action attack or guidance as well

Most fighter levels feel good in 2024 and war cleric really does no give that much you cant get with other ways, I can see it more for a rogue which uses only a single attack, then getting a tool to get +10 to hit might be worth it.

I wouldn't bother mysrlf
I have thought of adding it to a ranger after level 5 however.
Ranger issue is poor scaling around level 11.

Havent tested it.

 

[Zardnaar]

This thread has reinforced my dislike of min maxing powergamers.

"Oh, your hitting foes with weapons?! The best strategy is to lay down five AOE effects and emanations and grapple your enemies and run them through them like a cheese grater every round!"

Its debatable if that one works.

They buffed spirit guardians, war priest, emanations and added steel wind strike. And let anyone get true strike. And no concentration shield of faith. And conjure celestial.

Theres no ask the DM or rules exploits. It all works fairly simply.

If youre 5MWD like the internet assumes its great. If youre not its still great. Switches on fairly early.

Thats why im saying its slept on.

 

[Tigris]

I wouldn't bother mysrlf
I have thought of adding it to a ranger after level 5 however.
Ranger issue is poor scaling around level 11.

Havent tested it.

The problem with Ranger is that the scaling depends on its subclass. The subclass should bring the level 11 power spike, and some subclasses just dont do.


Which makes sense, making 1 power spike for a class right is easier than making 1 power spike for each subclass right. I guess thats why the monk did the level 10 power spike, but on the other hand, monk subclasses on level 11 are really boring.


Beastmaster level 11 literally gets an extra attack (of the pet) + some small bonus in case you have hunters mark up. Other subclasses are often just way weaker than this.

 

[Zardnaar]

No, they won’t. And True Strike won’t make it any better. Nor will using a rapier instead of a higher damage or reach weapon.

The weapon damage dice doesnt matter to much.

I've seen other clerics doing similar things with daggers. Hence 16 dex. Every cleric can now use rappers. Clerics dont get weapon masteries and 1d8 with shield vd 2d6 or 1d10 no shield is mostly a wash.

Its all the riders and emanations you add on that.

 

[Zardnaar]

The problem with Ranger is that the scaling depends on its subclass. The subclass should bring the level 11 power spike, and some subclasses just dont do.


Which makes sense, making 1 power spike for a class right is easier than making 1 power spike for each subclass right. I guess thats why the monk did the level 10 power spike, but on the other hand, monk subclasses on level 11 are really boring.


Beastmaster level 11 literally gets an extra attack (of the pet) + some small bonus in case you have hunters mark up. Other subclasses are often just way weaker than this.

Yeah idk if its worth doing. You would only be 2 levels behind in spell slots however and ranger 1-5 is actually good. The problem being concentration.

I suppose you could go druidic warrior and use shilleagh+warcaster since you can do that even with hard ass DM.

 

[TwoSix]

Its debatable if that one works.

They buffed spirit guardians, war priest, emanations and added steel wind strike. And let anyone get true strike. And no concentration shield of faith. And conjure celestial.

Theres no ask the DM or rules exploits. It all works fairly simply.

If youre 5MWD like the internet assumes its great. If youre not its still great. Switches on fairly early.

Thats why im saying its slept on.

It doesn't have a ton of obvious optimization hooks, so I can see why it gets overlooked.

But the level 3 ability and the level 6 ability are basically the same ability, burn a Short Rest resource to be able to spend a BA to get a baseline attack (1d8+mod at mod accuracy). The level 3 is just the Temu version that uses your tertiary stat instead of your main, but has the benefit it can be spent more granularly if you get into more short fights instead of less longer ones.

But nobody likes optimizing around abilities that aren't scaling with your main stat, so again, it gets overlooked.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

At which levels would that be worth it though? Bonus action attack can be get via a feat and many of the good fighter subclasses have uses of bonus actions anyway and also have second wind.

Before level 5 you dont want it because you want extra attack as fast as possible. Level 6-8 brings 2 feats and a good subclass feature, so you dont want to go cleric then.

Level 11 brings an extra attack which does not need a bonus attack, so you dont want to go war cleric then.

Level 12-14 maybe? But thats also 2 feats you give up + a use of indomitable and some small other things.

Feats can give bonus action attack or guidance as well

Most fighter levels feel good in 2024 and war cleric really does no give that much you cant get with other ways, I can see it more for a rogue which uses only a single attack, then getting a tool to get +10 to hit might be worth it.

Nah, Fighter 1/War Cleric 3 you get second attack level earlier. Remember, most battles in D&D don't last over 3 rounds and War Priest recharges on Short rest, so if you have WIS 16-17 you effectively have extra attack by level 4. This is also more reliable than GWM because that activates bonus action attack only on a crit or kill. Also with Archety fightign style and bless you'll likely never miss on ranged attack (+3-6 to all attack rolls) so it's perfect for ranged builds. You can also then combo it with Mark of the Storm and Potent Dragonmark, by level 7 when you get general feat you will be able to cast Conjure Minor Elementals, so by level 8 you do 3 attacks (5 with action surge) for big damage. You also will probably never fail a skill check between Tactical Mind and Guidance. It is a good build for where most games are, levels 1-7. Level 11 is irrelevant becaust nobody plays beyond level 10.