Its only playable if it looks human

Derren

Hero
Well, this is partly rant,partly question.
Since the 4E mystery race was revealed I read a lot of complains about that race which say that they are too exotic and doesn't fit into the PHB or PoL setting in general.
When I read those posts, especially some examples people bring, I get the impression that a majority of people think that humans could only get along with other human looking races. That most 3E PHB races are just humans of different sizes and/or pointy ears probably reinforced this impression.

But while the looks does play a part in being exotic or not, isn't it the culture which in the end defines how exotic a race is? Many people who argue against this mystery race seem to assume that this race simply appeared out of thin air a few days ago and no one has a a clue who those guys are. But most of the time this would not be the case but instead the PHB races would have known each other for hundereds, maybe even thousands of years. They might not live together and some humans might not seen one in their whole life but it can be expected that most humans would know that they exist, are civilized and that you can talk and trade with them.
And imo this is more important for an PC race than looking like a human. If the people know that a race is peaceful and civilized (and that race is balanced) it can be a PHB race no matter if it looks like lizards, insects, etc. So there is no PHB race which does not fit, only campaigns where certain PHB races don't fit. And that doesn't even have to be "non human looking" PHB race. If this race is all over the place trading and otherwise getting along with everyone they will be easily playable. And when a human looking PHB race is secretive and hides in small hidden areas where no one of teh other PHb races manages to come out alive it is awfully hard, probably even impossible to make them playable in that setting as that simply doesn't fit.

So my conclusion is that not the look determines if a race is "too exotic" to be a PHB race but the culture. And thats why I can't understand all those "The mystery race are too exotic for a PHB race, they don't fit!" complains. You are teh DM, you can make them fit if you want.
 

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It's your game: you can do whatever you want. But for people starting out, perhaps playing an Ahoggya from Tekumel might be a bit too difficult?
 

Quartz said:
It's your game: you can do whatever you want. But for people starting out, perhaps playing an Ahoggya from Tekumel might be a bit too difficult?

I don't know what Ahoggya are but why would it be too difficult assuming that the race itself is balanced? The DM can make a world where those are a accepted and common race which while having their own distinct quirks have generally good relations with the other races. In such a setting playing an Ahoggya wouldn't be any more different than playing an elf.
 

You have a major point, there. To us, the players, the race is exotic. To characters in the world, though, if they've been around a long time, then they've been around, and are not new and scary.

I think a major issue folks have is this: with other races, we already understand a reasonable default for how they fit together in a game world. For the new race, we don't have that information. Our default guess, then is that they're strange, because they are strange to us.

WotC will have to do some more work showing us how it fits into a game world before we (collectively) become comfortable with it.
 

Let them be new and strange. Once upon a time everything in the game was new and strange to us. Discovery and learning (and doing it ourselves) is part fo the fun of RPGs.
 

I think the issue with races like eladrin, tieflings, and dragonborn is that they're pretty exclusive to D&D, fluff-wise. I've always thought that generic races work best in the Player's Handbook, while more exotic ones belong in campaign setting books or Monster Manuals. It's easy to tell a newbie that he can play an elf, dwarf, or human, because he probably already knows at least a little about those archetypes. Dragonborn, while they might have something in common with certain archetypal races, require more explanation than the traditional standards.

Sure, you can say, "The eladrin are like very civilized elves," but then you've either drastically reduced the flavor of the race, or you've begged the question of why eladrin and elves can't just be folded into the same race. Same thing with tieflings and half-demons, or dragonborn and half-dragons.
 

JDJblatherings said:
Let them be new and strange. Once upon a time everything in the game was new and strange to us. Discovery and learning (and doing it ourselves) is part fo the fun of RPGs.

I dunno...even when I first got into D&D, I already knew what a dwarf and an elf was. I had an idea of what a fighter and a magic-user could do, and orcs, minotaurs, stone giants, and sprites were all familiar to me. The game expanded drastically from these fantasy archetypes, and I got into stuff like Dark Sun and Planescape, but the familiar base provided by core D&D was very useful in getting me interested in the hobby to begin with.
 

an_idol_mind said:
I think the issue with races like eladrin, tieflings, and dragonborn is that they're pretty exclusive to D&D, fluff-wise. I've always thought that generic races work best in the Player's Handbook, while more exotic ones belong in campaign setting books or Monster Manuals. It's easy to tell a newbie that he can play an elf, dwarf, or human, because he probably already knows at least a little about those archetypes. Dragonborn, while they might have something in common with certain archetypal races, require more explanation than the traditional standards.

Sure, you can say, "The eladrin are like very civilized elves," but then you've either drastically reduced the flavor of the race, or you've begged the question of why eladrin and elves can't just be folded into the same race. Same thing with tieflings and half-demons, or dragonborn and half-dragons.

I agree with this too. Additionally, I just like the freedom of a new exotic race being from a supplemental product. That way i can say "yes" or "no" more easily. If its Core and upcoming products used them more, it would be much harder to eliminate from my game.
 

Derren said:
Well, this is partly rant,partly question.
Since the 4E mystery race was revealed I read a lot of complains about that race which say that they are too exotic and doesn't fit into the PHB or PoL setting in general.
When I read those posts, especially some examples people bring, I get the impression that a majority of people think that humans could only get along with other human looking races. That most 3E PHB races are just humans of different sizes and/or pointy ears probably reinforced this impression.

But while the looks does play a part in being exotic or not, isn't it the culture which in the end defines how exotic a race is? Many people who argue against this mystery race seem to assume that this race simply appeared out of thin air a few days ago and no one has a a clue who those guys are. But most of the time this would not be the case but instead the PHB races would have known each other for hundereds, maybe even thousands of years. They might not live together and some humans might not seen one in their whole life but it can be expected that most humans would know that they exist, are civilized and that you can talk and trade with them.
And imo this is more important for an PC race than looking like a human. If the people know that a race is peaceful and civilized (and that race is balanced) it can be a PHB race no matter if it looks like lizards, insects, etc. So there is no PHB race which does not fit, only campaigns where certain PHB races don't fit. And that doesn't even have to be "non human looking" PHB race. If this race is all over the place trading and otherwise getting along with everyone they will be easily playable. And when a human looking PHB race is secretive and hides in small hidden areas where no one of teh other PHb races manages to come out alive it is awfully hard, probably even impossible to make them playable in that setting as that simply doesn't fit.

So my conclusion is that not the look determines if a race is "too exotic" to be a PHB race but the culture. And thats why I can't understand all those "The mystery race are too exotic for a PHB race, they don't fit!" complains. You are teh DM, you can make them fit if you want.
I agree with you.

Look at Star Wars. Hundreds of different aliens, and no one bats an eye. They've been integrated for centuries.

One thing I've always hated in earlier editions is that my DMs never said "you see an orc". No, it was always "you see a brutish, green-skinned humanoid with jutting tusks and oily black hair", even though my character had been seeing orcs for 20 years on a daily basis.

It's fantasy. Let it be fantastic.
 

I cut my roleplaying wisdom teeth on RuneQuest and Glorantha. Once you've been in a party with a Troll Berserker and a Duck Lord of Death, "normal" is an extremely fluid concept.

Even in the early days there were weird things floating around. Take a look at the Phraint from Arduin (an early D&D offshoot). A seven foot tall sentient praying mantis. Everyone I knew wanted to play one because of the cool factor.

Then again, I'm old and cranky so I may be missing something that's got other folks upset.
 

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