Just how powerful is variety?

[Kzach]

Before 4e came out there were a lot of discussions about flexibility and cart blanche access to powers. Most people said that we can't really judge such a house rule given that we haven't seen all the rules yet.

Well, we've seen all the rules; a year's worth in fact. So I'd like to revisit this discussion and see where people stand on it now.

Technically this could be a House Rules discussion, however what I want to focus on isn't the mechanics of such a rule, but the notion that variety is power.

To clarify, I'll specify a general concept of a house rule as a base to argue from (this is not an actual house rule, just a means to begin the discussion, other examples may be argued later): instead of choosing just one encounter power and one daily at 1st-level, you can choose to use any encounter or daily from your class list and within your level limit when you use it.

You're still limited to the level-based per day limits/per encounter limits, so at 1st-level you can only use one encounter power per encounter, but you can choose any 1st-level encounter power from your class.

Leaving aside rule arguments such as "this kills the wizard" or "now the human is unfairly disadvantaged", etc. just how powerful does this sort of variety and flexibility make PC's?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think the main "problem" is not the variety with your suggestion,but the ability to "spam" the most powerful attacks and repeat optimal combinations of powers.

It is quite possible that two or three powers used in concert in a party yield very good result - a guaranteed hit with a strong effect and lots of damage. But since it's possibly only once a day or once a encounter, it's not so problematic. But if you can do it three times a day, or three times a encounter, it will become more powerful.

Another issue is that a 7th level power is still better than a 3rd level power, so there often is little reason not to use the 7th level power every time you can, and always get the better result. In the times where another power would be more effective, you still get that option.

What I can't do is say you how much more powerful in the course of an adventuring day or encounter. I suspect it would be noteworthy, but not necessarily "kill Orcus at level 11 within two rounds".

 

[Kzach]

Ok, either I haven't explained it well enough or you haven't gotten the gist.

I've edited my OP to try and explain it better.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Ah, okay.

I have no clue how much worse it would be. Not as much as in my scenario; I suppose.

I think so much variety would result in a game that might become unplayable for some people - people already suffer from analysis paralysis if they have 2 encounters, 1 daily and 2 at-wills, imagine they had 16 encounter, 8 dailies and 6 at-wills to choose from!

 

[Obryn]

I wouldn't want to deal with the added complexity and long combat rounds.

I'm finally able to play D&D without a PHB open at the table anywhere, and I don't want to change that. I had about enough of players scanning through spell/power lists in the middle of combat by the end of my time with 3e, and I'm in no hurry to bring that back.

-O

 

[Umbran]

Well, we don't have an absolute power scale or something that allows us to give you a numeric answer. We can only demonstrate power by way of comparison.

Take, for example, a first level wizard. Under normal rules, he typically gets 2 at-will powers to choose from, right? So he has two damage types he can dish out at-will. A human might have three.

Under your house rules, he now has 4 damage types.

So, right there, you have greatly enhanced the wizard's ability to deal with creatures who are vulnerable or resistant to some damage types.

You get similar benefits in other aspects - having greater ability to find a power that specifically matches the current challenge. If what you really want is an area fire effect, and there's one available at your class and level, you'll have it. If you need a specific power to combine with some other character's power to make a great combination, that will be available as well.

I don't know if the question "how powerful is that" is the real issue, though, so long as the rise in power is even among all the classes in your party. If everyone benefits, then this becomes an exercise in recalibrating encounter design. If everyone's more powerful, then throw more powerful encounters at them, and the base power problem is solved.

Mind you, I think the major issue in your house rule isn't power at all. It is about choices. If everything is always available, you have fewer hard choices to make in character development. And, on a tactical combat level, you have a party that tends to be optimally prepared for any challenge, instead of folks who occasionally have to deal with cases where they need to use a hammer when they want a screwdriver. My guess would be that leads to less outright dramatic tension and creativity in combat.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I doubt combat would be much worse, aside from analysis paralysis, as only a few powers work with a particular character concept and build. On the other hand, it would be very powerful with regard to utilities.
Alot of utilities are dailies and balanced that one had a limited cache of utilities.

 

[Lord Ernie]

I wouldn't want to deal with the added complexity and long combat rounds.

I'm finally able to play D&D without a PHB open at the table anywhere, and I don't want to change that. I had about enough of players scanning through spell/power lists in the middle of combat by the end of my time with 3e, and I'm in no hurry to bring that back.

This.

See, if you allow a player the choice of encounter/daily powers at the time of usage, all you're really doing is moving the time of decision about what powers to choose from character creation to actual combat.

Now, while this is undeniably more powerful (most levels have powers which are good, but useful in different situations), I think the added tactical complexity is going to be positively mindboggling.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Also, it does seem to step on the toes of the controller schtick they seem to have finally figured out. The psion, the wizard and the druid all have versatility in terms of possible options as one aspect of their character.

You not only have the "right energy type for every situation", many of the implement casters will always be able to target the correct non-AC defense for any given situation. Most weapon using classes won't have that accuracy boost (although some have powers that target NADs) making the benefit to certain class types greater than for others.

Then there are bards with power swap feats ... I wouldn't even want to thnk about a character with a single power swap feat, let alone one that could pick the encounter power from multiple classes. Not to mention the Eternal Seeker.