Large size = +1 level adjustment?
- Thread starter MacMathan
- Start date
Nellisir
Hero
MacMathan said:
Aside from reach, there's not alot of benefit to being Large. Penalty to AC, penalty to attacks, penalty to Hide checks.... Assuming the creature doesn't have size modifiers to ability scores (and thus, in some sense, has a penalty to Str and Con and a bonus to Dex compared to a baseline human/oid), I wouldn't give it a LA.
I'm not real fond of Hit Die-less LA anyways.
Nell.
LightPhoenix
First Post
I'd tend to agree. A Large creature's benefits are reach, carrying capacity, and slightly higher damage (from large weapons). On the other hand they have penalties to AC and attacks, as well as to Hide. A PC race simply being Large definitely has no level adjustment. Ability modifiers might put it to +1 depending on what they are. One or two other racial abilities would be alright I think, but any more than that would be pushing it.
The ability that immediately comes to mind as far as level adjustments go is flight, which a lot people believe is LA +1 on it's own, no matter what, due to the tactical advantages.
The ability that immediately comes to mind as far as level adjustments go is flight, which a lot people believe is LA +1 on it's own, no matter what, due to the tactical advantages.
the Jester
Legend
Flight or a natural speed significantly higher than 30'- either of those, I'd say, deserves a +1.
Being large will almost always include higher stats, too- especially str and con. I'd watch out with a size increase.
Being large will almost always include higher stats, too- especially str and con. I'd watch out with a size increase.
Sniktch
First Post
Large without the accompanying stat boosts wouldn't be worth the LA. You'd basically be giving up the feat and skill points to be bigger.
I think you should factor in the +4 to grapple checks and other misc. combat modifiers in there. A Large grappler is just mean. But without the usual +4 Str or higher that Large creatures usually get, I'm still not convinced that its worth an entire level.
I think you should factor in the +4 to grapple checks and other misc. combat modifiers in there. A Large grappler is just mean. But without the usual +4 Str or higher that Large creatures usually get, I'm still not convinced that its worth an entire level.
Sir Brennen
Legend
Other advantages
IMC, there is a player using a home brew race which is Large with a ECL 4. It became evident that while Large isn't that great up front, certain feats and abilities gained later in the character's career are more advantageous to a Large character than to a Medium.
Like Great Cleave and Combat Reflexes. With reach, a two-handed sword and power attacking against light to medium armored foes, this guy could pretty much wade through an army.
Add in Large-and-in-Charge, or the dreaded Spiked Chain + Large combo, and it becomes apparent there are situations where Large works really, really well - but they don't come up all the time for all characters.
On the other hand, we did notice that Large creatures can be at a bit of a disadvantage when fighting in close quarters - like a building designed by medium characters. Indoors, a Large character often finds himself in situations where the "squeeze" rule (PHB, page 148) comes into play, meaning the character only gets 1/2 movement, and takes a -4 to hit and AC.
Not an argument for or against Large = +1 LA; just some thoughts.
IMC, there is a player using a home brew race which is Large with a ECL 4. It became evident that while Large isn't that great up front, certain feats and abilities gained later in the character's career are more advantageous to a Large character than to a Medium.
Like Great Cleave and Combat Reflexes. With reach, a two-handed sword and power attacking against light to medium armored foes, this guy could pretty much wade through an army.
Add in Large-and-in-Charge, or the dreaded Spiked Chain + Large combo, and it becomes apparent there are situations where Large works really, really well - but they don't come up all the time for all characters.
On the other hand, we did notice that Large creatures can be at a bit of a disadvantage when fighting in close quarters - like a building designed by medium characters. Indoors, a Large character often finds himself in situations where the "squeeze" rule (PHB, page 148) comes into play, meaning the character only gets 1/2 movement, and takes a -4 to hit and AC.
Not an argument for or against Large = +1 LA; just some thoughts.
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Evilhalfling
Adventurer
No mention of powerful build?
It seems to give all the advantages of large size except reach, with no disadvantage. (more dmg from large weapons - minor? ha! avg +3.5 with 2 handed and bonuses to grapple/trips etc.)
large size comes with more expensive armor and lots of social and living problems - powerful build ignores all this.
large may not come with enough benifits for a +1 but logically unless the race is amazingly feeble then +2 or +4 str seems required. The combination easily pushes into a +1 ecl
It seems to give all the advantages of large size except reach, with no disadvantage. (more dmg from large weapons - minor? ha! avg +3.5 with 2 handed and bonuses to grapple/trips etc.)
large size comes with more expensive armor and lots of social and living problems - powerful build ignores all this.
large may not come with enough benifits for a +1 but logically unless the race is amazingly feeble then +2 or +4 str seems required. The combination easily pushes into a +1 ecl
