Lend a hand? (Shields, swapping hands, & spellcasting)

[Magus Coeruleus]

I only have two hands!

1) Can you cast spells with a hand whose corresponding forearm has a buckler strapped to it (sacrificing the AC bonus for the round, of course)? How about a small shield?

2) How about using a scroll or wand under each of those conditions?

3) What sort of action is it to transfer a weapon or other item from one hand to another? For example, if you wanted to put your weapon in your light shield hand to free up a hand for casting, would that take a move equivalent action or would it be a free action? If a free action, would there be anything to stop you from swapping it back while it's still your turn?

Some relevant bits from the SRD:

Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.
You can’t bash someone with a buckler.

Shield, Heavy, Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can’t use your shield hand for anything else.

Shield, Light, Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield’s weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.

Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.

Thanks.

 

[shilsen]

This isn't really spelled-out clearly in the rules, so it will be at least a little dependent on DM adjudication. My take on things:

1) Can you cast spells with a hand whose corresponding forearm has a buckler strapped to it (sacrificing the AC bonus for the round, of course)? How about a small shield?

No. And no.

2) How about using a scroll or wand under each of those conditions?

I'd say "No" to the first but would allow a wand to be used.

3) What sort of action is it to transfer a weapon or other item from one hand to another? For example, if you wanted to put your weapon in your light shield hand to free up a hand for casting, would that take a move equivalent action or would it be a free action? If a free action, would there be anything to stop you from swapping it back while it's still your turn?

I allow that sort of shifting as a free action, but only with a buckler.

 

[Starglim]

1a) Yes 1b) No. If you can wield a bow without penalty with a buckler equipped, I think you can make precise enough gestures. However, with a small shield, you grip it with your off hand so the hand is not free. Spell failure chance for the shield applies, whichever hand you use to cast.

2) I'd make the same answer. A buckler allows you to aim a wand or unfurl a scroll, a small shield does not.

You could perhaps target a wand on yourself only, when holding it with a small shield. You could carry your scroll tube in your shield hand and use your other hand to unroll it. You could also fasten the scroll, open, on the back of your small shield and read it from there later in the combat.

3) Swapping hands is a free action, but with a small shield, you are making a more awkward movement of partly freeing your shield hand to grip the object. I'd rule it as move-equivalent. Taking an object held in your shield hand with your other hand is a free action.

 

[mikebr99]

3) Swapping hands is a free action, but with a small shield, you are making a more awkward movement of partly freeing your shield hand to grip the object. I'd rule it as move-equivalent. Taking an object held in your shield hand with your other hand is a free action.

Nah... it's just a strap (or small handle) over your palm, which you don't have to remove to hold the weapon, while casting with your newly freed hand.... free action both ways in my books.


Mike

 

[Beretta]

I only have two hands!

1) Can you cast spells with a hand whose corresponding forearm has a buckler strapped to it (sacrificing the AC bonus for the round, of course)? How about a small shield?

Yes and Yes. From the SRD quote it says the hand is free to carry things, though you can't use a weapon, probably as the shield is too heavy to swing it. But casting a spell shoudn't be an issue.

2) How about using a scroll or wand under each of those conditions?

Same as above.

3) What sort of action is it to transfer a weapon or other item from one hand to another? For example, if you wanted to put your weapon in your light shield hand to free up a hand for casting, would that take a move equivalent action or would it be a free action? If a free action, would there be anything to stop you from swapping it back while it's still your turn?

Thanks.

A Move Equivalent action seems fair, but might unnecesarily complicate things. To speed up play I'd go for a free action. Either seems workable.

 

[Darklone]

Woah, not a lot of agreement here.

Guess I disagree as well.

At first, spellcasting says you need at least one free hand. Since I can't imagine that you would be hindered by your shield if you're gesturing with your free hand, I assume this is covered by the shields ASF. So yes, I do allow spellcasting with the shield hand of a buckler or a light shield. Spellcasting with a heavy shield is only possible after "un-readying" the shield as a ME action. Same for readying a shield.

Changing a weapon from one hand to another ... IMC houseruled to be a swift action to keep players from doing silly stuff like changing grips on spiked shield and polearm all the time to threaten the whole area around them.

 

[Westwind]

I agree with the buckler being okay, since there's evidence in the rules that a buckler-using arm can perform other functions but small and large shield are out. My own house rule is that a small shield hand can hold something, but not manipulate it--I added this after it became clear that light sources were going to be an issue. Casting with shields is only ever really an issue for Clerics (sometimes Paladins and Druids I suppose) and as the current balance of things favors them I don't have a hard time being strict about that.

 

[Darklone]

So, spellcasting with a buckler is ok, but not with a light shield? I don't see the reasoning. Spellcasting is not like TWF, you don't get any penalties for casting with the left hand while the right one wields a longsword. The spellcasting section speaks about empty hands, not free arms.

 

[tensen]

So, spellcasting with a buckler is ok, but not with a light shield? I don't see the reasoning. Spellcasting is not like TWF, you don't get any penalties for casting with the left hand while the right one wields a longsword. The spellcasting section speaks about empty hands, not free arms.

Because.. a buckler can be strapped to the arm and used... doesn't necessarily need the hand at all. With a small shield, you generally have your hand wrapped around the strap.

 

[Darklone]

Because.. a buckler can be strapped to the arm and used... doesn't necessarily need the hand at all. With a small shield, you generally have your hand wrapped around the strap.

Rather big difference to a buckler who is usually ONLY held in the hand and not strapped to your arm, right?