Let Me Get This Straight...(Threatening Reach)

[Tequila Sunrise]

Threatening reach effectively turns a big monster into a 3e big monster, right? What I mean is, the monster gets OAs against incoming PCs, yes?

If so, I'm wondering why so many soldiers have it, as it seems to be a PC repellent rather than PC velcro. Am I missing something here?

 

[Mort_Q]

Depends on who does the moving. If they close with the PC, then the PC can't shift and run unless they can shift more than one square. That's velcro-like.

 

[keterys]

Soldiers can use threatening reach to block PCs from heading towards other parts of the battlefield, as well as block PCs from disengaging when the soldier themself moves next to the PC.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Right, and it doesn't particularly keep the PCs from approaching the monster. In a sense it encourages them to get close and stick close vs fiddling around in the controlled area. Most PCs lack reach, so if they decide to melee the monster they're going to commit to getting right up there and staying there. The OA they may get coming in isn't going to force them to stay away, its just the price of getting in close.

So yeah, overall threatening reach tends to make monsters stickier in practice. I'm not sure I'd agree though that a lot of soldiers have it. A pretty small number of monsters overall have TR. Some are soldiers, some are brutes. Most are very large powerful iconic monsters that tend to be solos anyway.

 

[frankthedm]

If so, I'm wondering why so many soldiers have it,

it is a good ability, just too good to let it easily fall into Player's hands. Make no mistake, the 4.0 changes to OA were there to nerf the PC reachmonkey

as it seems to be a PC repellent rather than PC velcro. Am I missing something here?

[IMaGel]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1152/rradius.jpg[/IMaGel]Unless the GM is being generous with the descriptions or telling the players about the ability ahead of time, the PC finds out about it either when they are in the monsters threat range or when they first suffer the OA, thus they are already "stuck" one way or the other.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Unless the GM is being generous with the descriptions or telling the players about the ability ahead of time, the PC finds out about it either when they are in the monsters threat range or when they first suffer the OA, thus they are already "stuck" one way or the other.

True, a PC could easily charge into the rape radius before realizing it. But one of the PCs could just as easily make a knowledge check to know about it, or this could be not the first monster X with threatening reach they've fought.

In any case, I get it now. Even if it's not the most sticky soldier ability, TR is still freakin' awesome.

 

[keterys]

I pretty much always note something about a creature that has threatening reach, even if I don't explicitly say the words threatening reach, much as I will about creatures that have obvious auras. I think it falls under the realm of things to let a PC know about.

 

[Jack99]

I pretty much always note something about a creature that has threatening reach, even if I don't explicitly say the words threatening reach, much as I will about creatures that have obvious auras. I think it falls under the realm of things to let a PC know about.

I am the complete opposite. I really do not see how a creature could give off any clues that it has threatening reach. I do tell them how much reach a monster seems to have. Nothing more though.

Could you give an example of what you would say?

 

[Obryn]

Could you give an example of what you would say?

"He's very alert and watching for any openings whatsoever."

or

"He's waving his claws in a defensive pattern. You'll need to make sure you keep your guard up, because this guy is fast."

and so on...

-O

 

[eamon]

I also assume that the ability to take OA's generally comes with an active combat stance. Unless someone (or something) is being particularly sneaky (bluff, perception, monster knowledge come into play), I assume you can see the sword threatening you. That strike didn't just come from nowhere; the enemy had to be on your case and actively harassing you to take the OA. Similarly for aura's.

In fact, I generally assume that some vague sense of the monster's capabilities - insofar perceptible - should be actively communicated to PC's. If an elf is running around with bow, the bow is worth mentioning. It might be worth mentioning that he has two arrows nocked if he can shoot two at a time, but maybe he's just quick. The fact that the dragon's saliva drips from his fangs and starts burning holes in the planks of the ship is worth mentioning. The way the fringes of the wraiths shape move through the crates rather than around them is worth mentioning. Basically, I think in general there's likely to be a bucketload of little impressions that the heroes perceive but player's do not (automatically). Maybe they don't notice everthing - but if players never have a clue what they're fighting until it pulls it's tricks, something weirds going on. I think it's usually the other way around, actually - it's common for player's to persist using powers that aren't really believable (say, target reflex even though the enemy is really quick) just because the necessary communication hasn't been made. Or, they'll forget to keep a few squares free for the wizard to place his nasty effect. Sure, in-game the wizard probably does that several times a day - but out of game that's been last week and your life is full of other stuff to think about.

I think it's better to err on the side of too much information than too little - of course, not for stuff that actually has some reason to be hidden or secret.

Dramatic things like threatening reach - I'm sure there's a reason conceivable for not telling the players, but I've not yet been in that situation. The hydra's many snapping heads always paying attention to you and harassing you at every step isn't something I'd expect them to miss. That's kind of like failing the see the effects of polearm gamble - oh, whoops, how could I have guessed that running into his lance would hurt?