Let's build an imbalanced rogue

[Systole]

Here's my first pass:

Scout/Swashbuckler. Max out strength, take Lucerne Hammer for the Swashbuckler bonus. Assuming 10th level human, the character would have a base Str of 22 and 8 feats (given that a Swashbuckler can take Combat Trick 2x).

For the feats, I'm looking at: Power Attack, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack for sure. The next ones would probably be Furious Focus, Nimble Moves, Weapon Focus. Vital Strike wouldn't hurt, for those situations where he doesn't need to Spring Attack.

Assuming a Spring Attack, he gets 5d6 (sneak attack) + 2d6 (weapon) = 7d6 for base. If he can move normally, this goes up to 9d6 from Vital Strike.

 

[Bacris]

Human Rogue (Scout, Thug)

Feats:
1st: Weapon Finesse
Human Bonus: Sap Adept
3rd: Knockout Artist
5th: Sap Mastery

Rogue Talents:
2nd: Ninja Trick (Unarmed Combat Training)
4th: Combat Trick (Enforcer)

So at 5th level, whenever you charge someone, they are flatfooted (thanks to scout). Since they are flat footed, you deal double nonlethal sneak attack damage (6d6, thanks to sap mastery).

Since you were using your pimp-hand to deal the damage, you deal 1.5 times your level in extra damage due to sap adept and knockout artist. (In this case at level 5, 9 extra damage)

Now Enforcer comes into play, you can intimidate your foe as a free action, because you dealth nonlethal damage (Hope you didn't dump cha). If you succeed, they are shaken for a number of rounds based on the damage you just did (6d6 + 9 minimum), so lets say, forever, basically.
Thats -2 to attacks, skills, saves.

...Or you could switch all those rounds of shaken for one round of frightend (via the thug archetype) where:

Quote:
A frightened creature flees from the source of its fear as best it can. If unable to flee, it may fight. A frightened creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. A frightened creature can use special abilities, including spells, to flee; indeed, the creature must use such means if they are the only way to escape.

Frightened is like shaken, except that the creature must flee if possible. Panicked is a more extreme state of fear.

Which is basically taking any enemy out of the fight for one round, guarunteed and best part is, no save. And since the target for intimidate is static (10 + HD + wis mod), boost it enough (I recommend a cane that gives you an enhancement bonus to intimidate) and you don't have to worry about the enemy making a lucky roll.

That's at 5th level, will expand to 10th.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Don't bother with Swashbuckler. If you're using the UC, rogue can take Ninja Trick (Combat Trick) to gain Combat Trick twice. Yeah, you could still take swashbuckler for a bonus feat THREE times. But you only really need the ability to wholesale your godawful rogue talents 4 times (2, 4, 6, 8) before you get a bunch of godawful Advanced Talents instead. With specific feat talents like Weapon Training and Finesse Fighter, getting Combat Trick twice should be sufficient.

 

[Systole]

Swashbuckler gives the bonus Combat Trick and the Martial Weapon training at the cost of Trapfinding and Trap Sense. NOT spending a feat on the MWP was the bigger draw, to be honest. Since this guy is probably not going to be the party skillmonkey, it seemed a good trade.

EDIT: Haven't they errata'ed the Ninja Combat trick + Rogue Combat Trick yet?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Rogue already gets proficiency with rapier, sap, and shortbow. Others would be nice, but are not worth sacrificing the ability to take another archetype over.

Do these builds have to be rogue only? The only truly viable rogue build using PF only rules I can think of requires dipping Oracle 1 in order to work.

If it does have to be rogue 20...I can try to submit a Thug or Rake ranged Rogue based around Shatter Defenses later tonight, but it will not be very good...

 

[Systole]

The reason I wanted the MWP is to have a good reach weapon. Makes moving around in combat slightly easier ... as opposed to making lots and lots of Acrobatics checks, which I know you love. Since this guy is also going to be moving lots, it makes Vital Strike more viable, if it comes to that.

I don't know if there are rules in this thread. The spirit of the original challenge was rogue-only, but it's not like I'm going to pick a winner and mail them some cookies, so if you want to make your pillbox-sniper rogue/mist oracle, have at it.

 

[Bacris]

The goal here is simply show that ANY pathfinder class, if built intentionally, can introduce game imbalance that will require GM intervention, and it is not an issue that only affects a single class. The challenge was to show that even a rogue can do that.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I thought the goal of this is to show that even the most min-maxed optimized rogue possible is in the end no more imbalanced than a wizard who picked his spell selection by randomly throwing darts at a board while blindfolded.

 

[tylermalan]

I, too, thought that the idea was to show that Rogues can't break the game, even when they try. Of course, in the context of the other thread, wouldn't it be better to give builds (for any class) that are unbelievably, extremely overpowered?

 

[Bacris]

I, too, thought that the idea was to show that Rogues can't break the game, even when they try. Of course, in the context of the other thread, wouldn't it be better to give builds (for any class) that are unbelievably, extremely overpowered?

I don't think anyone's contesting that other classes can do it.

The argument was that rogues can't.

I think I could pretty quickly find barbarian, druid, and other class builds that are overpowered. I know that the fighter in the DPR olympics stood out as one of the top overall damage dealers. I'd think a zen archery monk could be shown to be a nasty build.

My statement was "virtually any class" can introduce imbalance if done intentionally. The challenge was to show a rogue could do it.