Lets play counter-point!

Limper · Jun 3, 2002

How do you have any flavor in your campaign other than Grim n Gritty? I thought it was the default environment of most campaigns.

And as an aside.... why would anyone play anything else? Were the Smurfs that popular?

BiggusGeekus · Jun 3, 2002

Well, campaign settings like Dragonlance and the FR where everything ends up OK certainly isn't grim and gritty. Sure some people end up worse for the wear or dead, but the worlds are pretty decent places.

Grim and gritty would be the world of Elric or the Black Company.

IMHO, of course.

rounser · Jun 3, 2002

And as an aside.... why would anyone play anything else? Were the Smurfs that popular?

Crothian · Jun 3, 2002

Because sometime it's fun to play with all the cool toys and still be challenged. Actually, it's good to show the PCs that they can have what they want and know it might not be enough. Also, some people just perfer having more power then the average game aviaible to their characters. This system is said to support everything, so why just stick with the simple ways. Challenge it with stats in the 30's and 3rd level characters with +5 weapons. I've yet to do this, but it can be done.

rounser · Jun 3, 2002

I suppose it's a fact of life that some people by default associate the stylistic extreme of emphasis on a grim, negative atmosphere with coolness and originality.

They then post threads implying that anything which doesn't fully embrace "grim n gritty" must be at the other extreme of the scale ("high fantasy") and fail to note that, like left and right wing politics, both "grim n gritty" and "high fantasy" do what they do well but have obvious flaws - and that most people probably fall somewhere towards the middle of the scale.

And that's where I like it.

Limper · Jun 3, 2002

Crothian said:
Because sometime it's fun to play with all the cool toys and still be challenged. Actually, it's good to show the PCs that they can have what they want and know it might not be enough. Also, some people just perfer having more power then the average game aviaible to their characters. This system is said to support everything, so why just stick with the simple ways. Challenge it with stats in the 30's and 3rd level characters with +5 weapons. I've yet to do this, but it can be done.

GnG is about feeling not about power. Anyone who's played in one of my campaigns would nigh faint if I gave them +5 equipment not for its rarity but for what I may have in store........... Hmmmmmmm thanks for the idea Crothian, 50 point build start at level 5 and one +5 item...... the paranoia would kill em.

hong · Jun 3, 2002

rounser said:
I suppose it's a fact of life that people by default associate the stylistic extreme of emphasis on a grim, negative atmosphere with coolness and originality.

Indeed.

I visualise the ultimate "grim and gritty" setting as having no dialogue whatsoever. It would be much like an 80s graphic novel or European arthaus movie. All changes of mood ("grim", "gritty", "grim-and-gritty", and "dead") will be conveyed by nuances of facial expression, camera angle, and graphic violence. (In European grim and gritty settings, however, casual, joyless sex may be substituted for some of the graphic violence.)

The ultimate grim and gritty setting will also have no light whatsoever. Light merely serves to dilute the intensity of grittiness, create a contradiction between intent and outcome, and highlight the crappy sets. It also makes for more interesting fight scenes if the combatants can't see one another.

The ultimate grim and gritty setting will also have no storyline whatsoever. Grimness is an existential metaphor, highlighting the absurdity of life and the pointlessness of human endeavour. To actually have a purpose would clearly go against the whole point of a grim and gritty setting, which is to instigate as much graphic violence (and/or joyless sex) as possible.

The ultimate grim and gritty setting can be summed up thus: eat, crap, kill.

The ultimate European grim and gritty setting can be summed up thus: eat, crap, bonk, kill.

I'll make millions.

rounser · Jun 3, 2002

The ultimate European grim and gritty setting can be summed up thus: eat, crap, bonk, kill.

It's funny...because it's true.

I think you forgot "die", though, and maybe "hate" as well. Some reference to pain should probably be in there too, but I don't know how you'd make that a "doing" word...

A revised grim n gritty summation: eat, crap, bonk, kill, die