Let's Talk About Clocks, Countdowns, Etc...

[thefutilist]

Hi, this is Vincent Baker, have I got a product for you!

To continue my pedantry. I really don't think so. It's John Harper who should get the credit. Although impending doom clocks from Dungeon World were obviously an influence on John.

 

[Fenris-77]

Sure, but that whole line was in response to whether they are supposed to be visible by intent and design.

Sigh. Clocks aren't a bespoke mechanic with specific outputs. They are basic checklists, that's it. Anyone who thinks they get to determine how that works completely misunderstands what a clock is,

 

[Laurefindel]

I was about to reply that I don’t use clocks much, then gave it more thoughts about it. Turns out I use clocks a lot; just not in the archetypical BitD 4-6-8-segment clock.

I often use a “3 strikes and you’re out” approach to checks, which is just a clock by another name. Death saves in D&D are a clock in that respect.

My Twilight Imperium game uses a tracker (the victory track from the board game as a matter of fact) to track to progress of various projects, impending doom, or abstract passage of time/progression. That’s basically just a series of 10-tick clocks.

I had a game where we were adding glass beads during the campaign. We had to stop the bad guys before the shooter glass spilled over. Again, that’s a clock.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

Sigh. Clocks aren't a bespoke mechanic with specific outputs. They are basic checklists, that's it. Anyone who thinks they get to determine how that works completely misunderstands what a clock is,

Yes, and? Yes, but?

I think it's ok to talk to both. I already got scolded for shutting down conversation on use of clocks, i think denying someone talking to clocks in terms of a specific use is fine too. It's ok to limit the definition of a thing like clocks or the terms of their use, if that is intended for aiding play or theme or mechanic and whatnot.

lawyer cavat, yeah, i know its not the only way to talk about clocks.

But if someone asked me 'how do clocks work in BitD' i would not feel like 'they do whatever your want' was a useful answer. That BitD link gave some useful answers, yes limiting, yet proscribed use, but thats ok too.

The thread is big enough to talk to both sides, both ways, limited or not and both.

...
Side note, this feel like the hit points conversation...

 

[Reynard]

Side note, this feel like the hit points conversation...

Hit points are, and have always been, clocks. This is a hill I will die on.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

Hit points are, and have always been, clocks. This is a hill I will die on.

Oh, you can use hitpoints and clocks however you feel best, no need to die!

I don't use clocks in any same manner as hitpoints myself. (i.e. I can 'heal' a few hitpoints, I don't allow a clock to 'untick')

For me, the best use of a clock is as a time to thing happen. one way flow. that thing either happens (clock ticks last tic) or that thing not happen (something made clock irrelevant or impossible, kinda like disarming bomb.)

I realize those things can be done (like making a bomb clock count backwards for a bit, but its still really just about if bomb blow or not), but I don't feel the need to mush those mechanics together.

 

[Reynard]

Oh, you can use hitpoints and clocks however you feel best, no need to die!

I don't use clocks in any same manner as hitpoints myself. (i.e. I can 'heal' a few hitpoints, I don't allow a clock to 'untick')

For me, the best use of a clock is as a time to thing happen. one way flow. that thing either happens (clock ticks last tic) or that thing not happen (something made clock irrelevant or impossible, kinda like disarming bomb.)

I realize those things can be done (like making a bomb clock count backwards for a bit, but its still really just about if bomb blow or not), but I don't feel the need to mush those mechanics together.

I think you are missing my point. Hit points ARE clocks. They are a way of pacing encounters, and they are dependent upon PC actions for determining that pacing.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

I think you are missing my point. Hit points ARE clocks. They are a way of pacing encounters, and they are dependent upon PC actions for determining that pacing.

On a base level, sure. But since I am limiting my allowance of clocks to never 'untick' , that makes hitpoints greatly function differently.

the situation of a "knight attacking a troll, and a troll regeneration" = is a situation that my clocks will never be in.
via hitpoitns rules, its possible for the knight and troll to attack/regen forever, or for hits to be entirely negated.
that can't happen in my own use of clocks. once the tick is marked, nothing can remove it.

nothing can take my clocks progress away.
hitpoints can take away progress.

 

[kigmatzomat]

as a tangent to clocks...I use a threat die for random encounters, mainly I use this version for overland.

....
But my MAIN POINT here, is if the players fail a task that could alert foes or make them stand out, I casually reach around the table to where the danger die is setting and increment it up by 1.

They hate (love) it. Often (various groups) they will go..."okay we need to stealth more and go slower" or "pick up the pace, lets get outta here".

I have done this but imo its for groups of new players who don't yet have that inner sense of danger. The sense to know mayhem sends some creatures running but draws scavengers, opportunists and apex beings asserting dominance.

Mature groups get bland face until they open a door and a pack of face-eating leopards leap out and start eating faces.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I think you are missing my point. Hit points ARE clocks. They are a way of pacing encounters, and they are dependent upon PC actions for determining that pacing.

That is system dependant. In Earthdawn creatures burn hit points to fuel powers. I've seen a warrior avoid/block every incoming attack by burning strain and pass out from exhaustion. It can also be an opening gambit to explode into violence, while bleeding out every pore.

Which means they aren't purely dependent on PC actions for pacing.

And in d&d as the social/stealth/stun/banish player, my goal is to never engage with hitpoints aside from a mass coup de grace.