Load Bearing Rules in TTRPG

[MGibster]

Just because the company agreed with you doesn't mean the person who disagreed was wrong.

He had an opinion which meant he couldn’t be wrong by default. I just thought it was hilarious the official rule changed and I wonder if he quit the system because of it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

He had an opinion which meant he couldn’t be wrong by default. I just thought it was hilarious the official rule changed and I wonder if he quit the system because of it.

Ok. I guess I don't see why that would be considered funny.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Ok. I guess I don't see why that would be considered funny.

Its irony.

 

[MGibster]

Ok. I guess I don't see why that would be considered funny.

Because he made a big deal out of what was a relatively minor change. Going so far as to say he wouldn't participate in a campaign I was running if I made what he thought were fundamental changes to the game. If you're unfamilar with Savage Worlds, eliminating Swimming, Throwing, and Climbing and replacing it with Athletics did not fundamentally alter the game. That the hill he died on became the official rule for Savage Worlds is hilarious. I sometimes wonder if that change led him to abandon the system.

 

[aramis erak]

Because he made a big deal out of what was a relatively minor change. Going so far as to say he wouldn't participate in a campaign I was running if I made what he thought were fundamental changes to the game. If you're unfamilar with Savage Worlds, eliminating Swimming, Throwing, and Climbing and replacing it with Athletics did not fundamentally alter the game. That the hill he died on became the official rule for Savage Worlds is hilarious. I sometimes wonder if that change led him to abandon the system.

It does change the system a bit, in that no longer can you build a marathoner who cannot swim without going to disads.
It's a pretty minor one in most settings and contexts. It is far less minor in Deadlands or Pirates of the Spanish Main, where one but not the other is to be expected.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It does change the system a bit, in that no longer can you build a marathoner who cannot swim without going to disads.
It's a pretty minor one in most settings and contexts. It is far less minor in Deadlands or Pirates of the Spanish Main, where one but not the other is to be expected.

That's a general problem in heavily lumpy skill systems (which SW already is) though; note you run into the same problem with someone who can fly a prop plane but not a helicopter, or someone who is good with pistols but not shotguns, or swords but not maces.

It doesn't seem like the Athletics thing was a special case of this, and if anything, it makes it more consistent with the way the rest of the system lumps.

 

[MGibster]

It does change the system a bit, in that no longer can you build a marathoner who cannot swim without going to disads.
It's a pretty minor one in most settings and contexts. It is far less minor in Deadlands or Pirates of the Spanish Main, where one but not the other is to be expected.

Well, sure, if you change a rule it follows that you're changing the system a bit. But the point is it wasn't an alternation that fundamentally altered the game. As someone who runs quite a bit of Deadlands and ran Pirates of the Spanish Main, it's a very, very minor change even in those settings. Swimming comes up rarely in the American west, with such low frequency players can't really justify sinking a skill point into it, and I can count on one hand the number of times PCs had to swim in my PotSM campaign.

 

[aramis erak]

Well, sure, if you change a rule it follows that you're changing the system a bit. But the point is it wasn't an alternation that fundamentally altered the game. As someone who runs quite a bit of Deadlands and ran Pirates of the Spanish Main, it's a very, very minor change even in those settings. Swimming comes up rarely in the American west, with such low frequency players can't really justify sinking a skill point into it, and I can count on one hand the number of times PCs had to swim in my PotSM campaign.

Climbing is THE work skill for most topmen IRL... but very few sailors in that era knew how to swim... under SWADE, they're the same skill. It's a change to the setting, and in PotSM, away from realism in the name of simplicity. It's a strange hill to quit the game over, I agree, but it's a setting verisimilitiude hit by consolidating climb, swim, and run. Especially in periods where going overboard generally meant death.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Climbing is THE work skill for most topmen IRL... but very few sailors in that era knew how to swim... under SWADE, they're the same skill. It's a change to the setting, and in PotSM, away from realism in the name of simplicity. It's a strange hill to quit the game over, I agree, but it's a setting verisimilitiude hit by consolidating climb, swim, and run. Especially in periods where going overboard generally meant death.

The question is, again, how many people notice in most such games?

I'd susspect you do from the way you've constructed that, but that doesn't make it any more significant in practice than is the fact I'm sensetive to the fact that shooting a rifle and shooting a handgun can vary considerably, and there are quite a number of people who historically were quite good with one and at least mediocre with another. And that doesn't seem a trivial issue in a Western game--except to most people it is.

 

[MGibster]

Climbing is THE work skill for most topmen IRL... but very few sailors in that era knew how to swim... under SWADE, they're the same skill. It's a change to the setting, and in PotSM, away from realism in the name of simplicity. It's a strange hill to quit the game over, I agree, but it's a setting verisimilitiude hit by consolidating climb, swim, and run. Especially in periods where going overboard generally meant death.

If verisimilitude is that important to someone than I humbly suggest Savage Worlds probably isn't the right game for them. But the funny thing about verisimilitude is that we all have our own lines in the sand and they might look wacky to someone else. You accept X but you can't accept Y?