Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers ENworld reviews & discussion (SPOILERS)

Dr Midnight

Explorer
Juuuust wanted to start the official thread for the now-returning folk from the midnight show.

I begin writing now, and will post something to chew on soon. Ahhhhh.... slurp
 

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I just got home myself. We left the theater to find that Mother Nature had blanketed our fair city in a thin sheet of ice...it made coming home almost as exciting as the film. My reviews and thoughts tomorrow. Tonight, I will simply wish you all peaceful sleep and Tolkien dreams :).

BTW, I was very impressed with PJ's depiction of my Entish people...but deeply saddened to find that I was not mentioned by name. Perhaps I will not be so hasty when it comes time to negotiate my next movie deal :p.
 

I mourned the lack of acknowledgement, Friend Quickbeam. Also the lack of specifically mentioning the Entdraught that changes Merry and Pippin.
 

Ohhh, man. I’m back from my 12:05 showing at the Showcase theater in Warwick, RI. The geeks turned out in droves. I had a terrific dinner with a friend, and my Gimli action figure was slow-dancing with a salt-shaker on the table. Eventually, Gimli takes a bow and we hop over to the theater at 10:30. It’s already packed… the line for the 12:05 show (there were three midnight shows: 12:05, 12:10, 12:15) was pretty damned long already, and filling fast. We step into line and try to keep our wits as the minutes crawl off my watch at roughly one minute per five minutes. You get the idea. Some high school girls are dressed in renn faire clothes and are swooning over Legolas. I’m quoting my man Gimli like a fiend. “Roaring fires, malt beeer…” and so forth.

Blah blah.

Time passes and we finally get inside the damn theater. People settle in, and it’s a good crowd: very vocal. We boo and cheer the trailers. It feels like a community. Some new Vin Diesel flick? Boooo! The trailers end and the lights lower. People start cheering. Whooping, clapping, yelling. Then, the New Line logo floats in and “shhhhh!” is everywhere. The action starts and the crowd is dead entranced.

The toughest thing for me was slipping into the first half hour. I thought it would be terrific just jumping back into the story without much of a recap, but you know what? It felt kinda like being taken with no foreplay. If you’ll pardon me. The movie opens, as you’ve no doubt read, in Khazad-Dum with Gandalf and the Balrog. The geek in me notices that here Frodo screams “Noooo” before Gandalf falls, which isn’t how it is in Fellowship. I then smacked myself for being the kind of person who’d notice such a thing. Gollum creeps straight up on Frodo and Sam, there’s very little rebuilding of suspense on the whole Hey-there’s-Gollum-he’s-following-us thing. They capture him and we get to see the great Gollum acting we’ve heard so much about. It’s… so-so… until later. In all the first half hour felt like a rocket-ride back into Middle-Earth, when you could perhaps appreciate a slower immersion. Just my take.

After that, though, things pick up. Where things really changed for me was a scene featuring Gollum having a very cleverly done argument with himself. Gollum in the movie has two personalities- one that’s pitiable and almost endearing, the other the horrid opportunistic sleaze we know and love. I’m no Tolkien scholar, but I’m pretty sure that’s not how it is in the books. It works, though, and it pays off wonderfully after Gollum is “betrayed” by Frodo. He’d banished the evil side of himself, and been generally happy… but as he feels the master has tricked him, he has a powerful moment (paraphrased):

GOLLUM (back turned, arguing with his just-returned evil side)
Master stoles it, he stoles it… No, why would he steal it? He means Smeagol no harm. FOOL! He tricks us, and stoles it!!!

FARAMIR
He stole… what?

GOLLUM (turns to the camera, all menace and loathing)
My Preciousssssss!

Goosebumps. Great scene. So, do I buy the whole thing about Andy Serkis and the Oscar possibility? I don’t know. Gollum DOES steal the show, and he IS incredible to watch, but I think his appeal is in the script and facial animation. The voice takes a back seat to those eyes and that awful mouth. Gollum will make you laugh, too. There’s a funny little part where he’s just caught a fish, and he’s happily singing a little ditty to himself. Kinda like a child singing the “My bologna has a first name” jingle. It almost made him huggable.

What stood out?

The marsh (which is it? I forget the name). The dead faces in the water are incredibly creepy, and once Frodo’s fallen in, the creepy crawls all over you like eels.

Legolas swinging up into the saddle, as seen in the recent TV clip, got a round of hearty applause. Everyone loved it.

Gimli was the comic relief, again, but this time I had a better time with it. He was much funnier, and he had some nice dramatic moments. There was actually closure with the “Nobody tosses a dwarf” line so many people were iffy about last year, myself included, and it’s winning. “Just… don’t tell the elf…” I yelled when Gimli leapt down from the wall into the sea of orcs, armed with his axe and deadly intentions.

Fellowship members by the wayside. Gandalf is in the film for maybe twenty minutes, and he’s far from the Gandalf the Grey we loved in Fellowship. That’s appropriate, as he’s white now, and different, but the power and majesty of the character was just left cooling on the windowsill while other things simmered. Kinda sad that way. Pippen and Merry- blech. I know we can’t really have the same two hobbits, now that they’ve been abducted and subjected to horrors, but… they just don’t seem the same at all now, or even vaguely interesting. Merry’s angry speech up through his eyebrows at Treebeard just looked silly to me.

Helm’s Deep. I wasn’t looking forward to this so much. I never got the tension before. Well, the movie wired up the suspense and made damned sure I knew what was at stake. Then, when you can dimly see the orcs coming through the mist, you just about soil yourself, safe in your little theater seat.

Creatures. The wargs, ents, oliphants, and fell beasts are terrific fun to watch. The oliphants are only on screen very briefly. I was hoping for more of these things. Their scale is shown, though, and it’s awesome to behold. Wargs are… certainly good enough, but I’d rather more wolf and a bit less hyena. That’s just me. The ents were great, but I don’t think their fury came across well. The book made me think of ent anger as being terrible and fearsome, but an angry ent in the movie just walks quicker and smashes orcs around in an almost annoyed fashion. Not enraged enough. Fell beasts win the HOLY CRAP award, because when these things are in the sky, they’re as frightening as they should be. One flies up to Frodo in a slow motion scene, and we see it very clearly. It’s breathtaking.

The cleansing of Isengard. Great fun. When the dam gives way and the water comes down on the courtyard like the wrath of Sam Jackson, it gets more than a few gasps and claps from the audience.

Frodo and Sam. This, along with Gimli, is what I feel is most improved over what we saw in the first movie. The chemistry here is more potent, and we see Sam shrink back as Frodo becomes more and more dark. In the end, we’ll have seen Frodo at Sam’s throat, but they’re still walking along talking like old friends, and I feel the connection better than I did before.

The cutting between scenes… I didn’t care for it. I think this is one of those translation issues, but- meh.

One thing I’d like to mention is this movie’s too-often used. Last movie, it was the slow shot of the ring in someone’s hand. In this one, it’s silent teardrops. Almost every character in the movie has a moment where we see a tear fall from their eye.

So, to sum up, Gollum is the shizzy. Gimli is STILL the shizzy, just even more so, even if he’s still the funny little dwarf-man shizzy.

THE TWO TOWERS is a different plate of the same meal, and once you accept what you’re eating, you’ll have a hell of a time.

Aaaaand bedtime.
 
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Maybe the reason you hear Frodo scream before Gandalf falls is that the scene is from a different perspective then what was in FELLOWSHIP, from what I heard. Going today 11 am, 3.5 hours. No midnight show out here on Cape Cod.
 
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Dinkeldog said:
I mourned the lack of acknowledgement, Friend Quickbeam. Also the lack of specifically mentioning the Entdraught that changes Merry and Pippin.

Thank you DD. And I totally agree that of all the changes in TTT, the handling of all things Ent related could have -- nay, should have -- been truer to the books. Missing the Entdraught was bad, but having Treebeard essentially tricked (or at least led by the nose) into his rage at Isengard, is far worse. IMO it made the Ents seem less noble and majestic, and Doc Midnight is right in stating that the "fury" displayed in their assualt on Orthanc was a bit underwhelming. It's fun watching orcs gets tossed about like so many bean bags, but I wanted to feel the tremendous force of Entish wrath. Of course, I'm a bit biased ;).

Overall, I liked the movie -- which almost goes without saying -- but I walked out of FotR feeling more overcome by the experience than I did last night. Perhaps I let my expectations run away from me since I feel TTT was the best book in the trilogy...or at least my favorite.

The Good:
** Legolas and Gimli keeping a running tally on their kills at Helm's Deep. I was sooooo happy to see this included!!
** Gollum was fantastic. Period.
** The portrayal of Wormtongue was excellent.
** The orc and Uruk-Hai tussle over Merry & Pippin, which turns into a slaughter on the fields of Rohan.
** The handling of Eomer, Eowyn and Faramir were all solid IMO.
** The impending sense of doom as Saruman's armies march towards Helm's Deep...and then the siege itself was incredible. I also enjoyed Gandalf's timely appearance and the charge of the Rohirrim into the fray.
** Mordor. 'Nuff said.
** The Ents looked amazing. Much better than I'd dared to hope for.

The Bad:
** The solitary tears being shed as noted by Doc Midnight.
** The assault on Isengard left me wanting much more.
** Merry & Pippin were almost inexplicably not the same. I know what they went through, but the movie left a void with respect to their development where I'm concerned.
** The choppy scene shifting and changes.

FWIW, I'll be back in the theaters this weekend watching it all over again. I find my perspective adjusts after a second viewing. More from this hasty Ent later :p.

edit: What I should have said regarding Faramir is that I didn't mind them depicting him as like Boromir, only to begin a transformation of character into someone much more admirable.
 
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Quickbeam said:
Thank you DD. And I totally agree that of all the changes in TTT, the handling of all things Ent related could have -- nay, should have -- been truer to the books. Missing the Entdraught was bad, but having Treebeard essentially tricked (or at least led by the nose) into his rage at Isengard, is far worse. IMO it made the Ents seem less noble and majestic, and Doc Midnight is right in stating that the "fury" displayed in their assualt on Orthanc was a bit underwhelming. It's fun watching orcs gets tossed about like so many bean bags, but I wanted to feel the tremendous force of Entish wrath. Of course, I'm a bit biased ;).
Agreed - but it is important to keep the action moving... if we had gone at "ent-speed" the movie would have been 90 hours long. ;b

Seriously, the one thing I had hoped to see was the way I envisioned ents dismantling the stone stuff in Isengard in the books - placing their hands on it, then watching roots spread quickly and crumble the stone around them (like watching a tree grow in hard ground in super-fast-motion photography - say, 10 years per second). That was my visualization of it, anyway. I also missed the ents v. trolls fights I remember from the book (maybe my memory is bad).
Overall, I liked the movie -- which almost goes without saying -- but I walked out of FotR feeling more overcome by the experience than I did last night. Perhaps I let my expectations run away from me since I feel TTT was the best book in the trilogy...or at least my favorite.
Agreed there. I came out of FotR overwhelmed. I came out of TTT feeling, "cool" but not overwhelmed - except by one thing...

The Good:
** Legolas and Gimli keeping a running tally on their kills at Helm's Deep. I was sooooo happy to see this included!!
Agreed - but they didn't compare notes afterward (42-43).

** Gollum was fantastic. Period.
This was the part of the movie that overwhelmed me. Gollum finally goes from being half-toad (in the Rankin-Bass movies) to being much more human-like. His struggle between Sneaker and Smeagol was great, too, if a bit overdone with camera angles.
** The portrayal of Wormtongue was excellent.
Agreed.
** The orc and Uruk-Hai tussle over Merry & Pippin, which turns into a slaughter on the fields of Rohan.
Agreed.
** The handling of Eomer, Eowyn and Faramir were all solid IMO.
Eowyn was fantastic. Eomer was so-so. Faramir they missed completely. In the books, Faramir was what Boromir wasn't - wise enough not to yield to the temptation of the ring. Faramir was to me a noble character who recognized his own flaws and weakness and passed on the ring out of wisdom and self-restraint. Here, he's just another Boromir, only with less pathos.
** The impending sense of doom as Saruman's armies march towards Helm's Deep...and then the siege itself was incredible. I also enjoyed Gandalf's timely appearance and the charge of the Rohirrim into the fray.
This was good, too. I thought the insertion of the shots of the women and children cowering at the sound of the orc legions stamping, the explosions, the gates falling, etc. were good because it reminds you of just what is at stake.
** Mordor. 'Nuff said.
To be honest, I found Mordor a little less than perfect. Of all the "locations" in the movie, it seemed the most "blah."
** The Ents looked amazing. Much better than I'd dared to hope for.
Except for my note above about how I had hoped they would smash stone, I agree.

The Bad:
** The solitary tears being shed as noted by Doc Midnight.
I didn't find this all that bad. Remember, this is the earth these people are fighting for. This is for their friends and family. Every loss hurts.
** The assault on Isengard left me wanting much more.
Yup.
** Merry & Pippin were almost inexplicably not the same. I know what they went through, but the movie left a void with respect to their development where I'm concerned.
Agreed there, too.

I too will revisit theaters soon and let this one have a little time to digest. But if you were to ask me right now...

FotR: A+
TTT: B+ (very solid, but not overwhelming and with a few gaffes)

--The Sigil
 

LotR: T2T review of mine *SPOILERS*

I did NOT like the movie as much as the first, but it wasn't the cutting between scenes that did it for me. I thought Jackson did that well. He's technical skills are very good.

I didn't like aspects of the screenplay that compromise the moral fiber of the characters in ways that aren't present in the books.

Elrond is marshalling his people to leave Middle Earth (including his daughter). I know he found his daughter's choice very difficult, but the reason there was no elven help for the humans fighting in Rohan and Minas Tirith was because they were tied down defending their own refuges as Sauron attacked everywhere at once. Elrond had to be pushed into sticking around and helping by Galadriel and that doesn't sit well with me.

Theoden is much more like the badger waiting to be killed in a trap than the Theoden in the books. His recovery is supposed to energize his people but his treatment here is as a continuing weak man.

I can live with the changes on the Ents. It suggests they didn't know the full perfidy of Saruman rather than not being moral actors in and of themselves. And it makes the hobbits' intervention that much more important and significant. It does make Pippin seem a lot more astute than he should be at this point, though.

The biggest problem I have with it and the moral erosion is the FAILURE of Faramir in the test of the ring. He hauls Frodo and Sam as far as Osgiliath to take the ring to his old man. It's only after Frodo's encounter with the ring-wraith that he relents. That is NOT Faramir. Faramir thinks like Gandalf (one of the reasons he's so estranged from his father and why Denethor resents Gandalf so much) while it was Boromir who thought like his father. Faramir isn't as active or bold (though still effective) but he has better insight and sends Frodo on his way while counseling him to not trust Gollum.

I like the multiple personality of Gollum/Smeagol, but in the books, Gollum wins out very early and resolves to take them to "Her" very early, right after they leave the Black Gate. He's hurt by Frodo's betrayal in Ithilien, but he's already planning his betrayal long before then. That, I consider a fairly minor but interesting change, overall.

Sigh.
I think the changes in the Fellowship story were better considered than these. They don't significantly change the moral outlook and strength of the characters. THe changes in Two Towers does, to the detriment, I think, of the story.
 


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