Low Magic/High Potential Rules--maybe

[Mark Causey]

I was looking through my copy of the Epic Level Handbook for no good reason when I thought of something that may be of interest. I don't know if this has been addressed before, but ...

What if spellcasters had to develop ALL of their spells via a modified method of that of the Epic Spell generation?

Imagine a world that teems with magical energy but spells were far from defined and mostly personal. Schools might still exist, as people struggled like we did with Natural Philosophy (Physics, etc.). Any Wizard character could learn what others have discovered, but warping those unnatural physics would be a personal thing, at best. Clerics, on the other hand, would have to learn from their superiors, if they could, but mainly would learn how to pray in the correct methods to receive the energy, their Miracles. They may never see themselves as anything near to what those 'Fysicists' were. Druids would learn what areas or ley lines, when meditated properly at, would allow for preparation of Natural Creations. Sorcerers, Rangers, Bards, and simply dabblers at the Arts would include force of will or discipline on the matter, or simply find a different Focus (like music, for instance).

Still, the point would be: is there a system, or can one be reverse engineered or created, where each spell, at each level, could be created with a set of rules determining scope, effect, DCs, etc?

Gosh, I hope I haven't rambled too much.

AtR

 

[DanMcS]

I would like and use a skill-based system for spellcasting, which is what the ELH version kind of is.

Thing is, it won't possibly resemble the vast array of spells from the PHB. If you try to recreate them using the ELH rules, they end up being ludicrous. Teleport circle would be a tremendously expensive spell using ELH rules, as opposed to the PHB list, where it is a mere 2 levels (4 points of spellcasting DC or so) above greater teleport.

 

[Mark Causey]

Another problem with skill based spell casting is that it sort of ruins the flavor for Sorcerers and the like; they aren't known for their dedicated research on spells, they just sorta know them.

I guess if I decide to implement a system like this, it would depend more on the setting than on the rules.

Still, I think it would make a great game; a player develops their fireball and uses it now and then, but one day meets another spellcaster and his fireball is green, larger, and shorter range. I could see different conversations between the two about methodology, or even heated in-combat arguments about how the other spellcaster was weak.

Any other thoughts?

AtR

 

[DanMcS]

Another problem with skill based spell casting is that it sort of ruins the flavor for Sorcerers and the like; they aren't known for their dedicated research on spells, they just sorta know them.

That's not a problem. You let your memorization casters create spell effects beforehand with a set DC, and then they can take 10 to cast it. You let your spontaneous casters roll the check, no taking 10, see what DC they get, and then quickly design the effect from there.

 

[Mark Causey]

Party with wizard and sorcerer:

Wizard-"Now, after we've calculated what I've all told you ..."
Fighter-"I've forgotten ..."
Rogue-"Be quiet, he's almost done, I wanna see this work.
Cleric-"It'll never exceed Her Glory."
Wizard-"Harumph. Okay, after calculating all that, you just twist your hand and ..."

Campfire is lit.

Sorcerer-"..."

Days later:

Sorcerer-"And with a twist..."

Forest fire.

Sorcerer-"Oops."
Wizard-"..."

That definitely fits with the flavor, in my opinion

So, would the skills be School only, or like GURPS, with skills for the School and the Spell?

AtR

 

[DanMcS]

So, would the skills be School only, or like GURPS, with skills for the School and the Spell?

When I did it, I used 1 skill, choose domains/schools as feats, and gave spellcasters a bonus feat progression.

 

[Mark Causey]

When I did it, I used 1 skill, choose domains/schools as feats, and gave spellcasters a bonus feat progression.

Was it successful? Do you have a document detailing it?

AtR

 

[DanMcS]

I'm not completely sure what you mean by successful. It was a thought exercise more than anything, a "what kind of magical system can I create" kind of thing.

Basically, there are a few main effects, all DC 10. DC 10 doesn't get you anything, but it's the base.

To increase a stat 1 point is +2 DC (enhancement bonus).
To increase a skill 1 point is also +2 DC (competance bonus).

This lasts for one round. Further +1s to the DC let you increase the duration to 1 minute, 10 minutes, 1 hour, 12 hours, and 1 day. So to buff someone's strength by +2 for 12 hours would be DC 18.

Additional targets are +1 DC.

Every spell you have cast which is still in effect is a -1 penalty to your check, unless you use the magic sphere to hang the effect off a ley line or something and make it external to you.

That's the basic DC system, in a nutshell; flavor to taste, use ELH mitigators, that kind of thing.

Magical places can vary the DCs and checks of people; the fane of a church could give bonuses to Good spells and penalties to Evil ones.

Then you can start adding wierder effects, like summoning (DC = 10 + (2x the CR of the critter), elemental attacks (basic one is a touch attack, each d6 damage adds 2 to the DC), which can be shaped into area effects, etc, etc.

Then there are the feats, which I called magical "sources". There's one for Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Good, Evil, Law, Chaos, Plants, Animals, Shadow, Magic, Conjuration, Illusion, etc; you can make as many as you like.

I associated specific skills and attributes with each source. If you have Animal, you can buff any stat, summon nature's ally, and provide bonuses to ride and handle animal skills.

If you have Fire, you can summon firey creatures, buff intelligence, dexterity, make fire element attacks, and counterspell water effects.

The Magic sphere can be used to increase your spellcraft skill, counterspell any school, detect/read/identify magic, that kind of thing.

Conjuration can summon monsters, but also is used (at higher DCs) for dimension door/teleport/plane shift type effects. Each sphere can have individual uses like this.

The thing I liked about it was how easy it was to tune. Want stat buffing to be harder or easier, vary the DC cost. If you want to limit elemental attack to low dice, say the DC cost is [# of dice squared], so 1d6 damage is DC 11, 2d6 is DC 14, 3d6 is DC 19, and so on.

At base, it's only one feat, so a fighter could pick up the Good sphere, lay some skill points into spellcraft, base it on his charisma, and be a passable paladin, using his sphere to deal extra damage to evil things, heal people, and summon Good creatures occasionally.

A rogue could pick up Illusion and base it on int, and cloak himself in shadow or hide the noise of his passing. This kind of thing could start to require me to revise the skill or even class system, but that's a whole other thread.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Have you looked at Elements of Magic? It seems like they may have done a lot of the legwork for you. There's an ad on the front-page of EN World, and it has been cleared for sale at RPG Now.

 

[Mark Causey]

I noticed that. Maybe if I make a thread out of everything I want, someone else will publish it

AtR