Magic Items, PC Level, and 'old school' feel

[S'mon]

In regards to magic items and PC level, I've found that the best approach in 3e and 4e is to run a relatively low-level game (both PC and NPC), with slowish advancement and few high level NPCs, but the PCs have more than standard items for their level. It's particularly important in 3e because more items means less disparity between casters and non-casters. This actually gives a much more old-school feel than do high level but underequipped PCs.

The GM does need to control purchase & sale of items, though. The best approach is to limit what can be bought to low-powered stuff, limit sale price (4e does that by default with the 1/5 rule), but have powerful stuff findable in dark dungeons, in the hands of villains, and even gifted by the PCs' King, Temple, etc.

Anyone else tried a similar approach? Disagree vehemently?

 

[Bullgrit]

I wish people would realize that "old school" is not one particular style of play. "Old school" basically means, "How *I* or *my old-days group* used to play the game."

Your style in your old days is one style.

My style in my old days is one style.

His style in his old days is one style.

The style suggested/advised in the old rule books is one style.

The style presented in old modules is one style.

And all the above styles are probably different. Quite probably drastically different.

Hell, one's personal "old school" style probably changed/evolved over time. I know my first year of BD&D style was very different than my style just 3 or 4 years later, deep into my AD&D1 style. But surely you wouldn't say my AD&D1 of 1983 was less "old school" than my BD&D of 1980.

Talking about "old school" as one specific style of play is like talking about barbeque as one specific style of cooking. I mean, surely you understand that to get true barbeque, you must have vinegar and peppers on your pork.

Bullgrit

 

[Raven Crowking]

Bullgrit, this is the defining problem of using a language to speak. That this is so does not mean that we must all remain silent.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I don't know what "school" this belongs to but I prefer magic items to be magical rather than common enough to be simply "gear" at every level of play.

 

[kitsune9]

In regards to magic items and PC level, I've found that the best approach in 3e and 4e is to run a relatively low-level game (both PC and NPC), with slowish advancement and few high level NPCs, but the PCs have more than standard items for their level. It's particularly important in 3e because more items means less disparity between casters and non-casters. This actually gives a much more old-school feel than do high level but underequipped PCs.

The GM does need to control purchase & sale of items, though. The best approach is to limit what can be bought to low-powered stuff, limit sale price (4e does that by default with the 1/5 rule), but have powerful stuff findable in dark dungeons, in the hands of villains, and even gifted by the PCs' King, Temple, etc.

Anyone else tried a similar approach? Disagree vehemently?

I just set a GP limit based on level which right now is the current GP wealth level limits at 25%. I've been more of an RPGA mindset when it comes to buying magic item in having a fixed GP limit and not have to worry about it.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I wish people would realize that "old school" is not one particular style of play. "Old school" basically means, "How *I* or *my old-days group* used to play the game."

Except that some of us are playing it now. We either never stopped, or went back to it because we find boith the style and the rules superior. Of course, someone will chime in here and tell me we are not really having fun, just trying to recapture our childhood.

 

[Aus_Snow]

]Except that some of us are playing it now. We either never stopped, or went back to it because we find boith the style and the rules superior. Of course, someone will chime in here and tell me we are not really having fun, just trying to recapture our childhood.

Yep, and there are some of us who came across (or decided to try for the first time) old school gaming in very recent years. In fact, that's not even that uncommon, it seems. Oh, and this variant in particular would make said 'chiming in' even more ludicrous than ever.

As for magic items, I prefer that they are not assumed per level, and all that. Blech. They should be quite rare, IMO. And regarding casters vs. non-casters, I would rather modify classes (or use those in systems where that issue isn't present) than conveniently and neatly arm PCs to the teeth with all the 'right' magic items. Again, blech. It's just so soulless, sterile, clinical. . . And for similar reasons, I much prefer magic items to be in the DMG, *not* the frickin' PHB.

And yet, I know some gamers are of a completely different mind about this. That's cool too.

But hey, those things I mentioned above are all part of the 'old school' excperience, IMO. So it's not really surprising when those who are thoroughly invested in new school gaming vehemently disagree on one or more points (as they often have done).

 

[Bullgrit]

Except that some of us are playing it now.

I currently prefer to play D&D in my "old school" style.

We either never stopped, or went back to it because we find boith the style and the rules superior.

I play in my "old school" style because I enjoy it. But I play it with a later rule set because I find it superior.

Of course, someone will chime in here and tell me we are not really having fun, just trying to recapture our childhood.

I like playing my "old school" style because it lets me have the fun I had when I was younger. Hell, I play D&D at all because it lets me recapture my youthful fun.

Bullgrit

 

[S'mon]

I wish people would realize that "old school" is not one particular style of play. "Old school" basically means, "How *I* or *my old-days group* used to play the game."

Your style in your old days is one style.

My style in my old days is one style.

His style in his old days is one style.

The style suggested/advised in the old rule books is one style.

The style presented in old modules is one style.

And all the above styles are probably different. Quite probably drastically different.

Hell, one's personal "old school" style probably changed/evolved over time. I know my first year of BD&D style was very different than my style just 3 or 4 years later, deep into my AD&D1 style. But surely you wouldn't say my AD&D1 of 1983 was less "old school" than my BD&D of 1980.

Talking about "old school" as one specific style of play is like talking about barbeque as one specific style of cooking. I mean, surely you understand that to get true barbeque, you must have vinegar and peppers on your pork.

Bullgrit

OK, not helpful.

 

[Ariosto]

The one agreement is that the old rules sets are "old school", so "feel" or "style" comes in insofar as it is inherent in those rules-sets. By that measure, S'mon, I think the premise that seems basic to your considerations misses the real "old school" point entirely.

What is that point? It is that what magic items player-characters possess depends upon their fortunes in adventures. The DM governs the distribution of items in the environment. The DM does not govern PCs' acquisition of items; that is up to the skill of the players and the fall of the dice.