D&D General Magical Non-Spellcasting Ranger and Paladin

[doctorbadwolf]

So, I have always been okay with taking spellcasting from the Ranger, but I am not at all okay with making them mundane.

I also don't see the point in making them lack spells just for the sake of them not casting spells, as a goal in itself. They base concept is tied to a part of the world that is magical and needs magical solutions, and that character options tied to it have always had magic, and in 5e characters doing magical stuff frequently means spellcasting.

However, I was thinking about my nonspellcasting arcanist ideas and my old notion to make the Paladin not cast spells, and I figure I might as well develop the notion for the Ranger as well.

So, instead of spellcasting, you have:

- Ranger's Focus. Just like the Monk, but with different features that spend focus points.

Hunter's Quarry You can mark a target as a bonus action, gaining advantage on all wisdom checks related to the target for 1 hour. Alternatively, you can spend 1 Focus to gain the above benefit and 1d6 extra damage each time you hit the target with an attack.



- Natural Explorer
A set of optional benefits that are similar to the above in basic framework, but are related to exploration. You learn 1 at level 1 or 2, and more as you level.

Hunter's Swiftness You can dash or disengage as a bonus action. Alternatively, you can expend 1 focus to dash and disengage, gain a climb speed equal to your speed, and difficult terrain does not slow your movement.

Without a Trace You can Hide as a bonus action. Alternatively, you can spend 1 focus to also grant allies equal to your wisdom modifier a bonus equal to your proficiency bonus to their next stealth check.

- Ranger's Bane
A set of optional features that focus on taking down a type of enemy. You learn 1 at level 1 or 2, and more as you level.
You can apply a Bane to yourself and allies equal to your wisdom modifier or maybe you apply it to an enemy, whichever is more balanced with the rest of the class. Each bane lists it's duration and effects. Minor Banes require spending 1 focus to apply, with later options costing more.

Troll's Bane When you apply this Bane to you and your allies weapons, their attacks gain the following benefits. Targets cannot regain hit points until the start of their next turn, and they are poisoned. The bane lasts for 1 minute, reapplying the effect each time the target is hit and fails a save.

Dragon's Bane Targets take damage if they fly or move more than half their speed after being hit with this bane, and if they roll to recharge a special ability, they roll twice and take the lower result.

etc, basically favored enemy but more broadly useful while still being themed to a type of creature.


Thoughts?

 

[eclair~]

Yet another take on the Ranger that fixates entirely on combat-focused features.

 

[Mephista]

Thoughts?

No, no thoughts here. I gave up on them. Head empty, no brain, only floof.

So, instead of spellcasting, you have:

- Ranger's Focus. Just like the Monk, but with different features that spend focus points.

Focus, Rage, Stamina are all different and scale differently. Are you going all in being a copy of monk? Or is this a temporary thing until you flesh out the idea more?

Hunter's Quarry You can mark a target as a bonus action, gaining advantage on all wisdom checks related to the target for 1 hour. Alternatively, you can spend 1 Focus to gain the above benefit and 1d6 extra damage each time you hit the target with an attack.

A fundamental problem with Hunter's Mark that I, and many others, have had is... the Wisdom checks relating to tracking a creature come online too late to do any tracking. You've already found them!

Might I suggest allowing the tracking to begin upon making a Survival check? Then you get the bonus when you meet up. If tracking a group, pick one of the group to single out when you find them. First come, first serve.

This actually plays well into the class fantasy of being actual hunters and trackers better than H.M. does.

- Natural Explorer
A set of optional benefits that are similar to the above in basic framework, but are related to exploration. You learn 1 at level 1 or 2, and more as you level.

Hunter's Swiftness You can dash or disengage as a bonus action. Alternatively, you can expend 1 focus to dash and disengage, gain a climb speed equal to your speed, and difficult terrain does not slow your movement.

Without a Trace You can Hide as a bonus action. Alternatively, you can spend 1 focus to also grant allies equal to your wisdom modifier a bonus equal to your proficiency bonus to their next stealth check.

This is sounding incredibly similar to how a monk or rogue work, and is stealing their lunch. Neither of which really pass the vibe check on being related to being an Explorer, natural or otherwise.

I'm firmly of the opinion that every class should fundamentally play differently. This feels like there will be a lot of overlap.

- Ranger's Bane
A set of optional features that focus on taking down a type of enemy. You learn 1 at level 1 or 2, and more as you level.
You can apply a Bane to yourself and allies equal to your wisdom modifier or maybe you apply it to an enemy, whichever is more balanced with the rest of the class. Each bane lists it's duration and effects. Minor Banes require spending 1 focus to apply, with later options costing more.

Troll's Bane When you apply this Bane to you and your allies weapons, their attacks gain the following benefits. Targets cannot regain hit points until the start of their next turn, and they are poisoned. The bane lasts for 1 minute, reapplying the effect each time the target is hit and fails a save.

Dragon's Bane Targets take damage if they fly or move more than half their speed after being hit with this bane, and if they roll to recharge a special ability, they roll twice and take the lower result.

etc, basically favored enemy but more broadly useful while still being themed to a type of creature.

Not a bad idea, but the mechanics themselves are extremely niche. Monsters with regen or flight are relatively rare. Moving after you enter melee range is likewise not a huge issue for most.

You're basically taking the Hunter's options, and making them core. I'd suggest using them as benchmarks.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yet another take on the Ranger that fixates entirely on combat-focused features.

No.

No, no thoughts here. I gave up on them. Head empty, no brain, only floof.

LOL

Focus, Rage, Stamina are all different and scale differently. Are you going all in being a copy of monk? Or is this a temporary thing until you flesh out the idea more?

Its more a framework for now, to show the basic ideas. Even calling the points Focus is optional. The point is to replace spellslots with points valued like the monk, and a mix of at will and focus-costed abilities, some chosen and some fundemental and thus automatic.

Sort of...part monk, part warlock, part artificer, large part current and 2014 and revised ranger.

A fundamental problem with Hunter's Mark that I, and many others, have had is... the Wisdom checks relating to tracking a creature come online too late to do any tracking. You've already found them!

Might I suggest allowing the tracking to begin upon making a Survival check? Then you get the bonus when you meet up. If tracking a group, pick one of the group to single out when you find them. First come, first serve.

Oh i absolutely support placing the mark on a critter when you track it. I want the ranger to feel like an assassin, a hunter. Someone who the enemies of good folk and nature should fear.

This actually plays well into the class fantasy of being actual hunters and trackers better than H.M. does.

Hell yeah

This is sounding incredibly similar to how a monk or rogue work, and is stealing their lunch. Neither of which really pass the vibe check on being related to being an Explorer, natural or otherwise.

Idk being highly mobile and stealthy is absolutely vital to being a ranger. Like mandatory.

I'm firmly of the opinion that every class should fundamentally play differently. This feels like there will be a lot of overlap.

Me too, but multiple classes have evasion for a reason. Sometimes some amount of overlap is simply natural to the concept. A ranger simply cannot fail to be stealthy and highly mobile and succeed at being a ranger.

Not a bad idea, but the mechanics themselves are extremely niche. Monsters with regen or flight are relatively rare. Moving after you enter melee range is likewise not a huge issue for most.

Characters not moving is a DM failing, to be frank. Especially beefy monsters that can tank a few hits, and anythinf that can normally stay in the air or at range. And regen isnt needed for trolls bane to be useful.

Those banes are useful against wide swathes of enemies, but the point is to have specialised tools that you have several of, that are themed to a creature type but useful outside of it.

You're basically taking the Hunter's options, and making them core. I'd suggest using them as benchmarks.

Different goals. I am not basically doing any such thing. If i was, i would just literally do that and say the hunter subclass isn't compatible with this variant class.