Manifest Level of Advanced version of Caller-In-Darkness

[Particle_Man]

In the Expanded Psionics Handbook there is a Caller-In-Darkness with 11 HD and a Manifester Level of 7. If I were to augment that monster to 33 HD, what would the proper Manifester Level be?

a) 29 (add 22 HD = add 22 to ML)

b) 21 (triple the existing HD = triple the existing ML)

c) 7 (nothing changes)

d) Whatever I want

e) Something else

 

[udalrich]

By a strict reading of the rules, the answer is 7 unless psionics has special rules for advancing manifester level. Of course, if it did and you knew about them, then you wouldn't be asking this question.

However, assuming that his manifesting was a significant part of the challenge he presents, this would leave the advanced creature seriously underpowered. I would probably go with e: something else. The additional 22 HD will increase his CR by N, so I'd set the new manifester level at 7+N. That keeps the manifester level at the right level for the typical opponents. It's also possible that you should add some additional powers.

 

[Nifft]

udalrich has the right of it. Manifester level ought to be derived from CR.

IMHO, ML = CR +/- 2 depending on how much of a threat it is otherwise.

The Caller in Darkness is plenty tough, so -2 would be my recommendation -- and that's right in line with its current status (CR 9, ML 7).

Cheers, -- N

 

[NewJeffCT]

In the Expanded Psionics Handbook there is a Caller-In-Darkness with 11 HD and a Manifester Level of 7. If I were to augment that monster to 33 HD, what would the proper Manifester Level be?

a) 29 (add 22 HD = add 22 to ML)

b) 21 (triple the existing HD = triple the existing ML)

c) 7 (nothing changes)

d) Whatever I want

e) Something else

It's a combination of c or d. If I were DMing that high a CR monster, though, I'd likely bump its manifester level to either a or b.

 

[Jhaelen]

Funny! I've already used an advanced 33HD Caller-in-Darkness in my game. I went for option b) and it was a great encounter!
Here's the statblock I created; maybe it's useful for you:

Caller in Darkness (Advanced) CR 16
CE Huge undead (incorporeal, psionic)
(XPH 191)
Init +6; Senses Darkvision 60ft; Listen +21, Spot +21; Blind-Fight; Focused Perception* (blindsense 60ft for 1round)
Aura unnatural (30ft. animals must make Will DC 31 to avoid being panicked)
Languages Common, Flan, Oeridian, Suloise
* requires expend focus
________________________________________
AC 15, touch 15, flat-footed 13 (+5 deflection, +2Dex, -2 size)
Miss Chance 50% (incorporeal)
hp 247 (33HD)
Immune Ability drain, critical hits, death effects, disease, energy drain, exhaustion, fatigue, fear, mind-affecting effects, non-lethal damage, paralysis, physical ability damage, poison, sleep, stunning, or any effect that requires a Fort save.
Fort +11, Ref +13, Will +20
Vulnerable Sunlight (cannot attack; can only take a single standard or move action each turn)
________________________________________
Spd fly 60ft (good) (12 squares)
Melee 4 incorporeal touches +16 (3d6 + steal essence)
Space 15ft; Reach 15ft
Base Atk +16; Grp -
Atk Options Combat Expertise (+5 deflection AC, -5 to hit); Combat Reflexes (3 AOO per round)
Special actions Steal essence (30ft); Greater Psionic Endowment (DC+2)*; Psionic Meditation (refocus as move action)
Psi-Like Abilities (CL 21st):
1/day — co-opt concentration (Will DC21 negates)
3/day — quickened psychic crush (free, Will DC16 partial, 9d6), quickened concussion blast (free, no save, 9d6, 2 targets within 15ft)**, death urge (Will DC25 negates, 4 rounds), suggestion, psionic (close, Will DC 17 negates)
At will — concussion blast (s.a.), ego whip (5d4 Cha damage and daze 1 round, DC25 Will half), mind thrust (close, 21d10, DC26 Will negates), clairvoyant sense, detect psionics
* requires expend focus; ** or 8d6, 3 targets, or 7d6, 4 targets, etc.
________________________________________
Abilities Str -, Dex 14, Con -, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 21
Feats Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Focused Perception, Greater Fortitude, Greater Psionic Endowment, Improved Initiative, Psionic Endowment, Psionic Meditation, Quickened Psi-Like Ability (concussion blast, psychic crush), Weapon Finesse
Skills Concentration +18, Hide +30, Intimidate +22, Knowledge (psionics) +21, Listen +21, Psicraft +21, Search +19, Sense Motive +19, Spot +21
Possessions -
________________________________________
Manifestation (Su) When manifested it can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons, or spells, with a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source. A manifested caller can pass through solid objects at will, and its own attacks pass through armor. A manifested caller always moves silently.
Steal Essence (Su) Free; draw life essence of intelligent creatures slain by its touch attack into it. As a standard action (provoking AOO) it can draw the essence of a helpless creature within 30ft into it. In both cases it gains 12 temp. hp that last for 1 hour.

Note that it's quite possible that it contains some errors - no matter how often I check them, I always seem to miss something - it's one of the curses of 3E!

 

[frankthedm]

Double post.

 

[frankthedm]

Just remember advancing undead more than a few HD makes them unturnable for the PCs that will be fighting them.

At will — ego whip (5d4 Cha damage and daze 1 round, DC25 Will half)

That by itself sounds like Will save or die next round for a lot of characters. How did the party, notably the front line, handle it?

 

[Particle_Man]

Just remember advancing undead more than a few HD makes them unturnable for the PCs that will be fighting them.

Not an issue in the campaign I am running, the Priests and Hermits from Legends of Excalibur: Arthurian Adventures (as opposed to Clerics) can't turn undead anyway.

 

[Jhaelen]

Just remember advancing undead more than a few HD makes them unturnable for the PCs that will be fighting them.

Pretty much all high-CR undead have that problem, advanced or no, due to their high number of hit dice (which they get because of their lack of a Con bonus).
As it happened, the cleric player showed up late, when the combat was already pretty much over. So it was mostly up to the paladin player to keep the party alive!

She managed quite well, though. She summoned her Healing Spirit companion (the alternate class ability from Dungeonscape) and used a divine feat to good effect that healed everyone in a burst (and damaged the Caller in Darkness) as a swift action.

That by itself sounds like Will save or die next round for a lot of characters. How did the party, notably the front line, handle it?

Well, the fighter character was eventually taken out, but the others still managed to win right in time.

Note, that we're using action points, so saves don't fail often. Like most encounters at higher levels the combat was short (3-4 rounds) but dangerous.

They were also accompanied by an npc patrol which essentially bought them a round (although I only did that because the cleric player didn't show up...).

As is often the case, it was mostly due to the psion that the party defeated it. He had picked the extradimensional power metapsionic feat earlier in his career (after a very close encounter against a horde of shadows) so he did huge amounts of damage.

All in all it was a very fun encounter; scary and challenging but not resulting in any pc kills. Well worth the xp for the participants.