Martial Powers Ranger Multiclass Feat

[Chainsaw]

So.. Hypersmurf and Caliban, are you guys disagreeing on the rule or just the presentation of the rule? Would you agree that the spirit of the rule is that the feat doesn't grant the off-hand property to regular weapons and just go with that, even if the language maybe creates a loophole?

 

[Milambus]

This seems to be the same question as when wielding a versatile weapon as a two-handed weapon. Wasn't there some kinda official response on whether you should actually consider the versatile weapon as a two-handed weapon when being wielded in two hands?

Hmm.. the only thing I can find is this quote from the 4E Customer Service Answers Wiki here.

Fighter.76; Fighter Weapon Talent
Q1: A human fighter chooses one-handed weapons as his Fighter Weapon Talent. If he uses a longsword in both hands, does he still get the +1 bonus to hit?
A1: Yes.
Q2: A human fighter chooses two-handed weapons as her Fighter Weapon Talent. If she uses a longsword in both hands, does she still get the +1 bonus to hit?
A2: No.
Q3: A halfling fighter chooses one-handed weapons as his Fighter Weapon Talent. If he uses a longsword (in both hands necessarily since he is a halfling), does he still get the +1 bonus to hit?
A3: Yes.
Q4: A halfling fighter chooses two-handed weapons as her Fighter Weapon Talent. If she uses a longsword (in both hands necessarily since she is a halfling), does she still get the +1 bonus to hit?
A4: No.

4E Customer Service Answers - ENWiki

This seems to indicate that even though you are using weapon X as if it were weapon Y, it does not gain any benefits from feats, class features or powers that weapon Y would gain.

 

[Chainsaw]

@ Milambus: Makes sense. This seems to be the spirit of the law, even if it's not the letter.

 

[Caliban]

So.. Hypersmurf and Caliban, are you guys disagreeing on the rule or just the presentation of the rule? Would you agree that the spirit of the rule is that the feat doesn't grant the off-hand property to regular weapons and just go with that, even if the language maybe creates a loophole?

I would. Don't ask Hypersmurf about the spirit of the rules, he doesn't deal in such matters.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

A versatile weapon used two-handed does is still a one-handed weapon. So does not benefit from things like extra damage from Power Attack etc

 

[Hypersmurf]

So.. Hypersmurf and Caliban, are you guys disagreeing on the rule or just the presentation of the rule? Would you agree that the spirit of the rule is that the feat doesn't grant the off-hand property to regular weapons and just go with that, even if the language maybe creates a loophole?

Like I said above, I think that the most natural reading of the rule is that while you're wielding it, the weapon is treated as an off-hand weapon.

So it would benefit from anything that applies to an off-hand weapon.

Hmm.. the only thing I can find is this quote from the 4E Customer Service Answers Wiki here.

Hrmm. I thought I'd seen someone post an answer giving the opposite response - based on the line "by using them as a two-handed weapon" on p215. Something like "The weapon should be considered whichever is the most advantageous to the PC at the time", or something equivalently 4Eish. Vague memory suggests it might have been a designer answer rather than a CustServ answer, though.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ah, here we go:

Say I have a Fighter using a Longsword + Shield combo, and he has the Fighter Weapon Talent giving +1 to attack rolls with one-handed weapons. If I drop my shield and use my Longsword two-handed, do I still get +1 to attack rolls from my Fighter Weapon Talent? If I'm using a feat or power that gains extra benefits for wielding a two-handed weapon (like Reaving Strike or Power Attack) do I get those bonuses? Basically, when you wield a versatile one-handed weapon two-handed, for what purposes is it still considered a one-handed weapon, and for what purposes is it considered a two-handed weapon?

This is not an official answer, but let me give some insight into how versatile is intended to work.

As a rule of thumb when using a versatile weapon, default to giving the player the most beneficial reading of a rule or situation regarding one or two handed use.

So, the fighter would still get his weapon talent, and he could also gain the benefits of reaping strike.

Versatile is intended to let you have your cake and eat it too.

So according to that, it's even more permissive than I realised - in the example, the longsword is considered a one-handed weapon and a two-handed weapon at the same time.

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Ah, here we go:



So according to that, it's even more permissive than I realised - in the example, the longsword is considered a one-handed weapon and a two-handed weapon at the same time.

-Hyp.

I think I would go with the more recent answer from Customer Service, than an older answer that was specified as not being official. Especially since the "unofficial" answer seems to contradict the rules in the PHB (at least it looks that way to me).

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think I would go with the more recent answer from Customer Service, than an older answer that was specified as not being official. Especially since the "unofficial" answer seems to contradict the rules in the PHB (at least it looks that way to me).

Sure - I was posting what it was that was giving me the nagging memory.

As far as contradicting the PHB goes, the PHB is irritatingly unclear given the difference in wording between p215 ("use as a two-handed weapon"), and p217 ("use two-handed").

To me, p217 reads that the weapon is still considered one-handed, but p215 reads that it is treated as two-handed when wielded in two hands.

-Hyp.

 

[pokken]

The whole shocktrooper thing seems irrelevant since it requires paragon multiclassing, and a paragon path, and you can't have both.