I was wondering what everyone thought about using the armour's max Dex bonus to affect other things other than AC. Mainly limiting the Dex score used for initiative and Reflex saves. It would seem to make sense that you can't react as quickly when wearing bulky heavy armour. My main fear is that this would skew too far in favour of lighter armour. Any thoughts?
Max Dex bonus
- Thread starter aliensex
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Spatzimaus
First Post
It's not that it's a bad concept, but like you said: it'd skew things more in favor of light armor, and that's just not needed.
As it is, I don't see people in heavy armor much. After all, unless you go Full Plate you maintain a pretty constant AC just by staying at the max DEX allowed by the armor. At high level, you could get gloves of dexterity and go with lighter armor to get the same effect.
You can't sleep in heavy armor without being fatigued. You can't move as fast in heavy armor. And, against all those touch attacks you're far more vulnerable.
The only real advantage of heavy armor is when you're denied your DEX bonus to AC (flat-footed, surprised, attacker invisible, held, whatever), and that's just not enough IMO.
As it is, I don't see people in heavy armor much. After all, unless you go Full Plate you maintain a pretty constant AC just by staying at the max DEX allowed by the armor. At high level, you could get gloves of dexterity and go with lighter armor to get the same effect.
You can't sleep in heavy armor without being fatigued. You can't move as fast in heavy armor. And, against all those touch attacks you're far more vulnerable.
The only real advantage of heavy armor is when you're denied your DEX bonus to AC (flat-footed, surprised, attacker invisible, held, whatever), and that's just not enough IMO.
Murrdox
First Post
One of my friends suggested this at one point, when I announced my Cleric had an initiative score of "22" in combat once. I was in full plate, max dex bonus of +1, but I have a +2 dex bonus. He said I shouldn't have a 22, and that max dex bonus affects EVERYTHING.
Well, as soon as I explained to him "No, it ONLY affects AC", he said "Well, it SHOULD affect everything".
As soon as I told him how that would completely break high level rogues and monks, as well as EVERYONE'S Rfx save, he shut up about it.
Heck, if this game was all up about realism, you shouldn't be able to move much more than 5' per round in heavy armor anyways.
The max dex bonus is more of a game mechanic than it has anything to do with realism... it probably SHOULD affect RFL saves and initiative, as well as multiple ranged attacks per round (how can a fighter with full plate nock and release 3 arrows in 6 seconds??)
But this is D&D... the rules aren't always based in reality. Max Dex bonus is a check to prevent stealthy high-dex characters from getting a tremendous AC advantage. I could play a ranged attack rogue, who doesn't care at all about moving silently or hiding, jack his dex up, wear full plate, and then I'd have an AC of like 25 or so at level 1.
Well, as soon as I explained to him "No, it ONLY affects AC", he said "Well, it SHOULD affect everything".
As soon as I told him how that would completely break high level rogues and monks, as well as EVERYONE'S Rfx save, he shut up about it.
Heck, if this game was all up about realism, you shouldn't be able to move much more than 5' per round in heavy armor anyways.
The max dex bonus is more of a game mechanic than it has anything to do with realism... it probably SHOULD affect RFL saves and initiative, as well as multiple ranged attacks per round (how can a fighter with full plate nock and release 3 arrows in 6 seconds??)
But this is D&D... the rules aren't always based in reality. Max Dex bonus is a check to prevent stealthy high-dex characters from getting a tremendous AC advantage. I could play a ranged attack rogue, who doesn't care at all about moving silently or hiding, jack his dex up, wear full plate, and then I'd have an AC of like 25 or so at level 1.
Spatzimaus
First Post
The other thing is, if you start restricting Max DEX that way, you'll see tons of high-level Rogues and stuff wearing Bracers of Armor. No one would want mundane armor since it'd hurt them so much in other ways.
Now, I'll agree that it SHOULD restrict these things for purposes of realism. If you're wearing platemail you should have a harder time dodging a Fireball... on the other hand, the fire shouldn't bypass your armor like it does now. So, unless you're going to let armor bestow Hardness (DR against attacks AND magic) without reducing the AC, forget it.
Now, I'll agree that it SHOULD restrict these things for purposes of realism. If you're wearing platemail you should have a harder time dodging a Fireball... on the other hand, the fire shouldn't bypass your armor like it does now. So, unless you're going to let armor bestow Hardness (DR against attacks AND magic) without reducing the AC, forget it.
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