D&D General Mearls: Spells and Classes

I just watched the video. The thing that stood out the most to me, was the desire for having a greater difference between the different spellcasters. So a wizard should have an entirely different spell list than a cleric (and the spells should be tailored to the role that the specific spellcaster typically has in the game), without giving them access to each others spell lists (for example but not limited to through a feat), and thereby making them more unique and distinct. Or perhaps I interpreted that wrong ?
Spells are already power modules that can be reskinned however one wants. Many spellcasting classes need to be able to do the same things to be able to fulfill roles within a party. Damage, Healing, Buffs, Control, etc. Making sure every class has their own unique spells that cover the same party needs/roles sounds like book bloat to me. There just isn't enough room in a physical book to make sure every class has unique spells that do effectively the same thing as other spells of other classes. That would double the size of the spell chapter. Creating variations of damaging spells is less problematic other than bloat, but does every spellcasting class that heals have to have a couple 1st level healing spells that are different than the healing spells of other classes? Lesser Restoration? Counterspell? Remove Curse? How many different spells need to be created for the illusion of difference?

And you can't say that only Clerics can heal, only Bards can charm, only Wizards can blast AoE fire, or only Warlocks can bestow curses. That negates so many character ideas.

And who wants their favorite class to have a very small, curated spell list that makes them even more cookie cutter compared to other members of that class? What is better? Every bard having the same limited spell list and looks like every other bard? Or large cross-class spell lists so the player can craft the type of bard they want, even if there is some overlap of spell collection with a cleric or wizard?

And when it comes to publishers creating more spells, if there is no or little overlap between spell lists, all those cool ideas are worthless if no one is playing that specific class.

In a video game like WoW or a smaller RPG with a narrow, less expansive scope, a smaller, curated list can be good at making classes feel different from each other, but make members of the same class look more homogenized. D&D is published as an expansive sandbox that gives access to large toolboxes so players can craft the characters they want.

All that said, I'm fine with each class having some spells that no other classes get, like Eldritch Blast, or Animal Shapes. Heck, as a house rule, I might allow each Subclass to have unique spells. Like Spellfire Storm for the Spellfire Sorcerer. It could make narrative sense to some that only Spellfire Sorcerers get access to it. But if you look at it from a character design and publishing perspective, how useful is it to be published in a book if no one gets to use that spell unless they have selected that Subclass? What if the subclass is otherwise uninteresting? That spell is worthless and a waste of space in a book. But if a player wanted to play a Spellfire Sorcerer with Spellfire spells, I could see myself house-ruling that his Bladesinger Wizard buddy couldn't select those same spells, just to protect the identity and uniqueness of that Sorcerer. The Wizard already has a much larger spell list that the Sorcerer doesn't get, but I'd also consider saying that only the Bladesinger could select certain sword-themed spells in a specific campaign.

Essentially I could see limiting options at a specific table as a house rule, but not in the published books.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I didn't realize "landmine" was jargon. I specifically was thinking of surprises in the combination of classes where a character becomes overpowered (as in the claim replying to), intentionally or not, in a way that the DM and/or the game's designers did not expect --- the landmines/surprises I spoke of are in the expectations and consistency of the game in relation to the other people getting hit by the overpower of the landmine, not that the player got a terrible build in the end. Sorry for the confusion, but chalk it up to over-proliferation of jargon again.

Multiclassing that produces unique character concepts that are still within the mechanical intent of the game is great. The surprises are especially great when someone comes in with that innocent intent and ends up with something broken.
Speaking for myself, since broken is subjective, despite encountering powerful multiclass combinations from my players, I didn't see any that I would term broken. I also know that I have a higher tolerance for imbalance than a lot of people here.

My players came up with some of these "broken" multiclass combinations and I didn't really have much problem in still challenging them and making the game fun. What was far more broken for me, were plus X weapons. I handed out a bunch of them in my first campaign and suddenly deadly encounters were being cut through like a hot knife through butter. In subsequent campaigns I was far more careful about how many and when I handed out those weapons.
 

I think that the cunning action true strike rogueN/wiz1 debate nicely shows why respecting the action economy as a limit rather than subverting it at a high level with an easily achieved class feature is important. The whole debate should never have had a class feature opening the door.
It doesn't. It has a spell opening the door. And a spell that the DM has to go out of his way to help the player break the game with. The class feature is perfectly fine.
 

Ah, so you're just cheating. :) You only get sneak attack once per turn. Getting an extra attack with advantage as a bonus action doesn't change that.

"Level 1: Sneak Attack
You know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit..."

Or I'm completely missing something. Because if you could get two sneak attacks per turn you don't have to use true strike as a bonus action the vast majority of times.
It's a rules exploit that lets you sneak attack once on your turn using your bonus action (via the Utilize action on a scroll of true strike) and then ready an action to happen off your turn (by setting the trigger to happen during someone else's turn) to get another sneak attack. SA's limit is only when it's your turn (to stop it from interacting with extra attack) but not off your turn to allow it to interact with things like opportunity attacks.

If you find that counter-intuitive, just remember you can house rule it.
 

Speaking for myself, since broken is subjective, despite encountering powerful multiclass combinations from my players, I didn't see any that I would term broken. I also know that I have a higher tolerance for imbalance than a lot of people here.

My players came up with some of these "broken" multiclass combinations and I didn't really have much problem in still challenging them and making the game fun. What was far more broken for me, were plus X weapons. I handed out a bunch of them in my first campaign and suddenly deadly encounters were being cut through like a hot knife through butter. In subsequent campaigns I was far more careful about how many and when I handed out those weapons.
I (and I think all of my players) don't like imbalance, but I tend to be pretty laissez-faire about it personally, yeah --- I don't worry about identifying it up front, especially, but I also play with people I know well, and we know the unspoken contract: if it proves to cause a problem in play, we change it, no ifs, ands, or buts.

We'd go so far as to roll back the power of magic items, except as a table agreement rather than the "old school" approach of throwing rust monsters at the party. =)
 


It's a rules exploit that lets you sneak attack once on your turn using your bonus action (via the Utilize action on a scroll of true strike) and then ready an action to happen off your turn (by setting the trigger to happen during someone else's turn) to get another sneak attack. SA's limit is only when it's your turn (to stop it from interacting with extra attack) but not off your turn to allow it to interact with things like opportunity attacks.

If you find that counter-intuitive, just remember you can house rule it.

As I explained, for over a decade we've "house ruled" that you can't ready an action if you've taken a bonus action. I guess it just hasn't come up very often.
 

As I explained, for over a decade we've "house ruled" that you can't ready an action if you've taken a bonus action. I guess it just hasn't come up very often.
It costs a spell scroll per use, so it's not really a cost effective tactic except for big boss battles. So as one person told me: "As others have pointed out, there are plenty of things in the game that require a specific sequence or other small tweaks if you want to maximize efficiency."

I see this as just another example of that.
 

It costs a spell scroll per use, so it's not really a cost effective tactic except for big boss battles. So as one person told me: "As others have pointed out, there are plenty of things in the game that require a specific sequence or other small tweaks if you want to maximize efficiency."

I see this as just another example of that.
But more importantly (in my opinion), as @Zardnaar pointed out, an enspelled item is both more cost effective AND is unambiguously compatible with a pure Thief.

So while the Wiz1/Thief may have the ability to use scrolls they crafted, they are not twice as effective as a pure Thief in a campaign that lets characters craft items.
 
Last edited:

But more importantly (in my opinion), as @Zardnaar pointed out, an enspelled item is both more cost effective AND is unambiguously compatible with a pure Thief.

So while the Wiz1/Thief may have the ability to use scrolls they crafted, they are not twice as effective as a pure Thief in a campaign that lets characters craft items.

Spellsticks aren't broken. Easy access to any spell on them easily is.

Low level group has one with cure and another has one with a smite spell on it.

My cartographer had guiding bolt.
 

Remove ads

Top