Mithral Armor

[Vanye]

Some of the threads I've read here seem to imply that medium and heavy armor made out of mithral is enough for a character to wear it.

What I mean by this is like in the current thread for the duskblade, there is a reference to mithral full plate being medium armor, and thus the duskblade could cast it in once they've taken the BattleCaster feat.

Here's the link to Mithral from d20srd.org
Mithral
Specifically
Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light

That means, by my read, that for purpsoses of movement restrictions (such as barbarian movement, or rogues Evasion) or spellcasting purposes (such as for a bard) that it counts as one category lighter, but you would still need to have the abiltiy to wear the appropriate medium or heavy armor.

Is this just an unstated assumption on the part of everyone in this forum that that is the case, or is that just being left out of the arguments?

 

[Bad Paper]

yeah, this is a tricky subject, and there are lots of viewpoints and house rules. Currently I run it as mithral fullplate is medium armor, end of story. For my next campaign I am considering interpreting it that yes mithral fullplate is medium armor, but requires heavy-armor proficiency. Or something like that.

 

[Aaron L]

Hmmm. "For purposes of movement and other limitations." I hadn't really thought about it much, but I'd say that you probably should need Heavy Arnor proficiency to wear it without penalty, but fr a Barbarians Fast Movement, a Duskblades Armored Casting, and such, it is treated as Medium.


(Especially for Duskblades, since the text says to get Mithral Fullplate because you can cast in it without problems )


I'm not dead-set on the position, though, and if anyone can come up with better reasoning than I'll change my stance.

 

[The_Warlock]

I currently interpret and run it as being of the lighter class of armor, taking the text as meaning that it functions as lighter armor, and thus qualifies for the lighter category of proficiency. To be fair, though, I never really thought I was "interpreting" the text, so much as WotC was being overly wordy in their descriptions, i.e., "other limitations" such as possession of specific armor feats.

I swear I've seen a WotC product with someone in mithral armor statted out without any limitations due to lack of proficiency - but I can't remember where...I may have a chance tonight to look it up tonight - but unlikely. Too many damn books.

From a Different but Same standpoint, so far every computer adaptation of the 3 or 3.5 ruleset I've seen classifies them as simply being the lighter category armor and thus not needing a heavier proficiency. But, that is computer adaptations, and not necessarily an absolute truth with regards to tabletop rules.

 

[Beckett]

I believe the FAQ suggests that if it counts as Medium Armor, you only need Medium Armor Proficiency to use it. It might not be the most realistic way, but it's the easiest.

I've run it both ways, and treating armor as the base armor type for proficiency can be confusing and annoying ("So, my elf ranger in elven chain mail moves at normal speed and can use his two weapon feats, because it's light armor, but I'm not proficient in it? Howzat?"

Of late, I've just ruled that if treated as light armor, it falls under the light armor proficiency, and so on. Of course, my two current games are gestalt, so armor proficiency hasn't been a problem.

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

As was stated, there is no official reply to the question, "Do you need heavy armor proficiency to wear mithral full plate without penalties?"

The wording of the armors and the set up of armor tables suggest that all you would need would be medium armor proficiency, but serious arguments can be made either way.

Myself, I rule that if you lack the armor proficiency, then you lack such things as game-knowing how to buckle it on effectively, keep it clean, do minor repairs, keep it from chaffing, etc, etc, etc. Thus I say you do need heavy armor proficiency to use mithral full plate effectively.

It's not as if heavy armor proficiency is all that difficult to get.

 

[Diirk]

Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light.

Proficiency is a limitation, so for the purposes of proficiency, the armour is 1 category lighter (to a minimum of light)

 

[GorTeX]

The FAQ states that a reasonable interptation of the rules is that Mithral Full plate is medium armor and Mithral breastplate is light armor. The FAQ also states that this is NOT what the DMG says, just a reasonable/easy way to interpet it.

From my point of view, Armor proficiency of the armor is NOT a limitation. You can wear Heavy armor without the proficiency--you just take some penalties.

Other Limitations, to me, refers to things like sleeping in armor.

It comes down to how you wish to rule it in your game.

Do you want to penalize Fighters who wear Mithral Full plate (in that Heavy armor Optimization and GHAO will not work with medium armor) while giving Barbarians and Rogues (along with others) a 'free' feat to use?

 

[Diirk]

From my point of view, Armor proficiency of the armor is NOT a limitation. You can wear Heavy armor without the proficiency--you just take some penalties.

Other Limitations, to me, refers to things like sleeping in armor.

Well by your logic there, you can sleep fine in heavy armour -- you just take some penalties. So its clearly not a limitation.

I agree you can wear heavy armour without the proficiency and just take some penalties... but thats precisely why it is a limitation. A limitation is anything that limits you, by definition. And non-proficiency penalties are pretty limiting esp for things like full plate.

Do you want to penalize Fighters who wear Mithral Full plate (in that Heavy armor Optimization and GHAO will not work with medium armor) while giving Barbarians and Rogues (along with others) a 'free' feat to use?

I'd treat mithral more as the precedent of the sunblade (I think its called? the bastard sword that can be wielded as a short sword). Its treated as 1 category lighter when it comes to limitations... but not beneficial effects. Mithral full plate may only require medium armour proficiency, may only slow you as much as medium armour etc but it is still heavy armour and thus qualifies for heavy armour optimisation (I assume anyway... I haven't read that particular feat).

Even if you ruled that you didn't qualify for that feat, I'd still say it doesn't penalise fighters... it just forces them to make a choice. Is it worth it to get those extra 2 points of dex to ac, or is optimisation better? Should I go with adamantine armour instead ?

Secondly, its not really a free feat for rogues and barbarians either. There's the obvious gold cost, but there's also the slightly less obvious opportunity cost. That is to say, if your armour is made from mithral, it can't be made out of anything else.

Also, a mithral chain shirt is better for a rogue than a mithral breast plate in most cases (and cheaper!), making it a non-issue. And for a barbarian, assuming mithral fullplate, he's paying 9000 gp for a +3 ac bonus... which doesn't seem particularly out of whack.

 

[nittanytbone]

What part of this doesn't make sense?

...mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light.

OTHER LIMITATONS would, in theory, include armor proficiency feats. So a barbarian with Medium Armor Proficiency can wear mithral full plate, no problem.

Is this a balance problem? No way!

First, it really helps melee types the most. And melee types need the help to keep up with casters, especially without Tome of Battle.

Second, it doesn't unduly help clerics or druids. Clerics and druids are the most powerful core classes in the game, but this interpretation doesn't buff them up even further (druids can't wear metal armors; clerics come with heavy armor prof). On the contrary, it lets other types catch up.

Third, it forces melee types to make a choice. What's better? That adamantite breastplate for DR/2 or mithral full plate for the extra AC? Anything that gives players meaningful choices is usually good.

Fourth, it makes sense. I think the language above is pretty clear. It even lays out there that mithral heavy armor is treated as medium armor.