Monster Level/XP

[Fallen Seraph]

One thing is still confusing me, I understand a Level 1 monster means it is for one PC, a level 2: 2 PCs, etc. Thus why 4 PCs can take on the Level 4 Black Dragon.

But what about when it is like a Level 16 monster, what would that mean?

Also which system then be better the XP-one or Level?

I guess essentially, give me a plain-english explanation of the new monster-levels for PC encounters.

 

[Kordeth]

One thing is still confusing me, I understand a Level 1 monster means it is for one PC, a level 2: 2 PCs, etc. Thus why 4 PCs can take on the Level 4 Black Dragon.

But what about when it is like a Level 16 monster, what would that mean?

Also which system then be better the XP-one or Level?

I guess essentially, give me a plain-english explanation of the new monster-levels for PC encounters.

Err, no, that's not what monster level means at all. One monster of X level is a good challenge for one PC of X level. Ergo, a balanced encounter for a group of PCs is one in which the total monster levels equal the total PC levels. The reports we've been hearing say there's a lot of wiggle room, though--that you can go quite a few more levels up from the PCs than you could in 3E without worrying about TPK--and that unlike with 3E the "many monsters of lower level" is actually a comparable challenge to "one monster of equal level."

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Alrighty makes sense. Guess was reading it wrong.

So essentially, Level 16 monster equals: 4 level 4 PCs?

 

[Kordeth]

Alrighty makes sense. Guess was reading it wrong.

So essentially, Level 16 monster equals: 4 level 4 PCs?

I really doubt your party can take on a monster 12 levels higher than you. If the math can extend that far, I'll be very impressed and surprised. Remember, one 4th-level dragon nearly killed several 6-person 1st level parties at the XP. I'm going to guess you can probably slide anywhere from 3-5 levels in either direction from the PCs' level before you start hitting problems.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Ugh, *hits head* silly me, I completely fazed out in my reading and misread. I gotcha now.

 

[pweent]

One last important thing - that was a 4th level solo dragon that was facing a party of six 1st level PCs. A solo creature is intended to be a match for a party of 5 adventurers of its own level. Thus, that dragon should have been taking on a full party of 4th level characters.

The fact that parties stood a chance against it at all shows pretty clearly that the 4e power levels aren't scaling up QUITE so fast as in 3e. Judging by the stat blocks and XP values we've seen, it looks like a party of five 1st level characters ought to be evenly matched with five standard 1st level monsters (5 x 100 XP); four standard monsters of 2nd level (4 x 125 XP); or roughly three standard 4th level monsters (3 x 175 XP). That last one is just a smidge on the high side, but it shouldn't be overwhelming. If you demand an exact match, two 4th levels and one 3rd level would balance (2 x 175 plus 1 x 150).

Of course, Challenge Ratings were supposed to let you do similar calculations as well. I'm looking forward to seeing how well this new math works in practice.

 

[TerraDave]

Ya, its that. (we didn't beat it, even at full strength).

 

[Bandreus]

although the CR system could work too, it is a lot harder to figure out the right way to mix up creatures with different CR, and the math could easily get weird and hard to manage. Alos the save or die mechanics can turn the encounters in a sort of lottery, regardless of CR or XP earned

Also this way monsters seem to scale a lot better (since the power level for the PCs, as they say, should be flattened too), so you can mix different creatures with different level and different roles quickly. I think I'll have a lot of fun when preparing my games, always trying to figure out different tactics for the encounters

Gosh, it really feels more like setting up your warband for a D&D mini game than for a D&D one ~_~

 

[MerricB]

What I'm getting from Massawyrm and other contributors is that if you add up the XP and compare it to the expected XP from a standard encounter, it is pretty close to what you'd expect.

So, for a party of four 1st level characters, four kobold skirmishers (400 XP) would be a good challenge, as would any other monster or monsters that added up to 400 XP value. Remember, the power curve is a lot less steep in 4e.

Mind you, one 400 XP creature may be a bit too much above the curve... which is why we have Levels, Minion, Elite and Solo monsters.

One Level X PC should be able to take on...
...Two Level X minions.
...One Level X regular monster
...1/2 Level X elite monster
...1/4-1/5 Level X solo monster

or...
Two Minions = 1 PC
One Normal Monster = 1 PC
One Elite Monster = 2 PCs
One Solo Monster = 4-5 PCs.

Cheers!

 

[mhensley]

So a first level party of five could fight 20 (25 xp each) Kobold Minions? Sweet!