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5E MTOF: Elves are gender-swapping reincarnates and I am on board with it

JPL

Explorer
Seriously. It's 2018, and I'm ready for elves that aren't just two or three familiar Tolkeinesque subraces or 1990s drow cliches. If you're chaotic good and enjoy several hundred years of youthful vigor, you're gonna want some variety, and if you were a different gender, or a tree, in your last life . . . you're just not gonna get hung up on this kinda stuff, right?

3rd Edition dragons had this stuff figured out already. Anything from an angel to a kobold, a 3rd edition dragon will shrug and say, why not? And bam, slap a half-dragon template and an ECL +2 on that baby.
 

JPL

Explorer
And this stuff, by the way, is why dwarves and elves don't get along. Different on not just a cultural level, but also biological and spiritual --- dwarf souls and elf souls don't operate the same.
 

Shiroiken

Explorer
I have to say I dislike much of the surface elf lore in MToF. It makes elves seem like emo jerks that long for the relief that death will bring. I mean, birth is a time of sadness because it steals a soul from elf heaven? Screw that; elves are suppose to love life! The creation of new life should be the most joyous of occasions, not a pity party.

Oh, and as a grognard, elves don't have souls, they have spirits ;)
 
S

Sunseeker

Guest
The more lore WotC adds to elves, the less I listen to what WotC has to say on anything.
 

AmerginLiath

Villager
My first thought is how odd it is to have such an overhaul of lore at this point in the edition cycle. It would make sense to have those sort of changes at the release of 5ein 2014 (similar to the changes to monster lore in the MM), but we’ve gone through four years of assumptions around “classic” D&D lore (and discussion of said lore in the core books and previous releases). We’ve seen how changes in lore can come alongside initial releases (4e being the prime example), so the sudden change in lore assumptions partway through 5e like this is odd to see, given the strong focus upon classic setting elements through the play tests and past years of releases.
 

Mad_Jack

Explorer
I honestly can't recall having ever used the official D&D lore on any of the races in a pure, unadulterated straight-out-of-the-book fashion, at least as a DM...
(When I'm playing a character, I mostly just use it as a reference point in order to play against the type or subvert one or more of the tropes.)
 
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guachi

Villager
I just don't care about the lore in the new book. It reminds me of someone's homebrew campaign. Maybe if I were new to the game or we weren't drowning in lore already I'd care. If there's something specific about the races you can put it in the setting supplements that Wizard's probably won't ever do.

Sigh. I just find the supplements an unsatisfying mess.
 
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flametitan

Explorer
So, how does reincarnation work with selling your soul (a la warlock)?
Terms and conditions apply to elf reincarnation, a big one being the worship of Corellon. If someone else has claim on your soul, well that's just too bad. No reincarnation for you!
 
More WotC pandering. Way to go.

~ I won’t Edit this because it has been quoted so many times by others, but this IS a violation of ENWorld’s inclusivity policies. So I’m leaving it as is: please don’t do it again; no one else should follow this example.

Also, “See something, say something.”
 
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Mouseferatu

Villager
More WotC pandering. Way to go.
Yes, heaven forbid WotC add an element of (entirely optional) lore to welcome/support a demographic that has either gone unacknowledged or been made fun of by nearly every element of mainstream entertainment. Clearly, they are pandering, because this might, potentially, if all goes well, earn them literally dozens of extra dollars. In the meantime, in adding a few paragraphs of (optional) lore, they have clearly ruined the game for all the people who have been catered to by nearly all mainstream entertainment their entire lives, and are not at all coming across as fit-throwing toddlers by being bothered by this stuff.
 
I'm quite happy to see gender-fluidity in the lore.

I do wish it wasn't elves though. They seem to get everything.
 

gyor

Adventurer
I have to say I dislike much of the surface elf lore in MToF. It makes elves seem like emo jerks that long for the relief that death will bring. I mean, birth is a time of sadness because it steals a soul from elf heaven? Screw that; elves are suppose to love life! The creation of new life should be the most joyous of occasions, not a pity party.

Oh, and as a grognard, elves don't have souls, they have spirits ;)
I honestly never understood the difference between a soul and a spirit honestly.
 

gyor

Adventurer
Yes, heaven forbid WotC add an element of (entirely optional) lore to welcome/support a demographic that has either gone unacknowledged or been made fun of by nearly every element of mainstream entertainment. Clearly, they are pandering, because this might, potentially, if all goes well, earn them literally dozens of extra dollars. In the meantime, in adding a few paragraphs of (optional) lore, they have clearly ruined the game for all the people who have been catered to by nearly all mainstream entertainment their entire lives, and are not at all coming across as fit-throwing toddlers by being bothered by this stuff.
I'll point out again that this in no way actually represents any group of humans entirely, the closest would be the rare people who are born girls and turn into boys when they get a hit of testerone at puberty.

Actually trans people can't change their sex daily, so that would be better represented by a background and a quest for a magical spell or item that can change their biological sex to the sex that matches their gender.
 
I'll point out again that this in no way actually represents any group of humans entirely...
I don't think that's the point. I think this is about saying, "you are welcome here."

My only concern with the approach taken is the risk of trivialising the experiences of the relevant minorities. But I'll leave that for them to say if there's an issue or not - they're better qualified.

Actually trans people can't change their sex daily, so that would be better represented by a background and a quest for a magical spell or item that can change their biological sex to the sex that matches their gender.
And what about the person who wants to play a transgender character but doesn't want it to be a big deal? After all, I get to play a male character and nobody bats an eyelid.
 

JPL

Explorer
More WotC pandering. Way to go.
I dunno . . . to me, Red Sonja being simulaneously hypersexualized and sexless is pandering. Old-school half-orcs where the default origin story was "rape" is pandering. As much as I love Robert Howard, all of these stories where the purest-blooded white guy crushes the enemy and hears the lamentations of the women are pandering. Lovecraft's paranoid obsession about racial corruption is pandering. Tarzan and the Phantom showing the people of Africa how it's done is pandering.

And a lot of stuff that could have been written off as "pandering" at the time, or that looks clumsy or cringey in hindsight, might be the first step towards something more substantial. Maybe Uhura was tokenism, but the lead of the new series is a black woman.

This game is not thriving by keeping us middle-aged grognards in our comfort zones, man. It's supposed to be about telling stories . . . there are more stories to be told than "white guy's Hero's Journey," with non-white guys as flavor or opponents or sidekicks and women as the prize.
 

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