D&D 5E Multi-Multi-classing

[mellored]

Honestly, with Eldritch Smite, I'm not sure the Paladin part is even required anymore!

Paladin 6 is very good, especially if your Cha primary.

That said. I would do bard over sorcerer.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Paladin 6 is very good, especially if your Cha primary.

That said. I would do bard over sorcerer.

Sure, though sinking 6 levels into an MC is a big ask in 5e. Whether you do it as Hexblade 1/Paladin 6/Hexblade +N or Paladin 6/Hexblade N or whatever else, it's a lot.

Two invocations at level 5 gets you most of what Paladin offers. The +Cha to saves IS really nice, no question, but "+Cha to saves, Extra Attack, and slightly inferior Smite ability" may not be worth 6 levels and saving the two invocations you would've spent on Eldritch Smite and Thirsting Blade. Hexblade alone gets you medium armor and shields, and medium armor is actually semi-viable since you don't need to focus on Dex for attack and damage. The Paladin spell list isn't half bad, and being able to cast some of those things with Warlock slots is nice, but even piling all that together I'm not sure it's "6 levels of MC" nice.

Why Bard over Sorcerer though? Being able to burn spell slots for SP or vice-versa is the big draw of the Sorcerer/Warlock. Bard is a wonderful all-rounder (something I've thought about quite a bit with speculative builds), but I'm not seeing what the benefit here is compared to Sorcerer. Especially if you go Divine Soul (which you probably should, unless some other consideration comes into play.)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I've gotta say, I've never seen any characters multiclassed for "versatility", it's always because class A has some ability that synergizes with something class B and boosts the core performance of the build. Any versatility is mostly a bonus.

There is a trade off in being behind the curve at certain levels, but being ahead of the curve on most other levels makes up for it.

You need the synergies to keep up. But at most levels of play it is just a tradeoff.
And whenever you multiclass out of a full caster, you also lose versality in the form of highest level spell slots.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Honestly, with Eldritch Smite, I'm not sure the Paladin part is even required anymore!

Now imagine if we lived in a world where the playtest sorcerer survived into actual published 5e. SO MUCH MORE FLAVOR in a wonderful combo.

But yes, the "coffeelock" is a great combination.

Eldritch smite can only be used with warlock spell slots... So if you want to actually use your sorcerer spell slots for smites, you need paladin. This all of course is only if you read the multiclass rules in a certain way.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

When it comes to triple-classing, there's just one word:

Sorlockadin®.

Accept no substitutes.

Nah, tripple classing is perfectly fine with many combinations.

I am always surprised how balanced the characters remain.

 

[mellored]

Why Bard over Sorcerer though? Being able to burn spell slots for SP or vice-versa is the big draw of the Sorcerer/Warlock. Bard is a wonderful all-rounder (something I've thought about quite a bit with speculative builds), but I'm not seeing what the benefit here is compared to Sorcerer. Especially if you go Divine Soul (which you probably should, unless some other consideration comes into play.)

Bardic inspiration of course. Not all abilities need to be about boosting yourself.

Giving allies +Cha, +1d8 to saving throws keeps them in the game, and Keeping an ally fighter or rouge fighting will add more damage than a few extra smites could.

(Also, if your the only Char-op at the table, doing all the damage while others are dying isn't fun for them).

And if you feel like adding a bit more, war mage 2 is a great add for lots of classes. Shield, silvery barbs, deflection, and lots of out of combat rituals.

Just to toss another 3 class idea out there. Satar Battlesmith Artificer 7, Ancient Paladin 6, warmage 2. Int/Cha. You're now spell proof, with high AC.

 

[mellored]

Armorer/Psi-Warrior/Bladesinger/Arcane Trickster.

 

[DND_Reborn]

When it comes to triple-classing, there's just one word:

Sorlockadin®.

Accept no substitutes.

Two, actually:

Cleroguizard ®.

 

[ECMO3]

I would not agree that Eldritch Smite is the equivalent of, or better than Paladin's Smite. The main problem with ES is you only have 2 pact slots (per short rest) and you can't use regular spell slots for it. You are also giving up ALL of your magic to do that twice which is a big ask for a primary caster. Spells like Fear and Psychic Lance can be game changers and even if you are only counting damage, spells like Spirit Shroud or Hex are going to actually do more total damage I think.

A Paladin also can Nova just as good because he can combine a bonus action smite spell with a smite so even though his slots are lower he can make up that damage by having more slots and being able to use them more effectively.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I would not agree that Eldritch Smite is the equivalent of, or better than Paladin's Smite. The main problem with ES is you only have 2 pact slots (per short rest) and you can't use regular spell slots for it. You are also giving up ALL of your magic to do that twice which is a big ask for a primary caster. Spells like Fear and Psychic Lance can be game changers and even if you are only counting damage, spells like Spirit Shroud or Hex are going to actually do more total damage I think.

A Paladin also can Nova just as good because he can combine a bonus action smite spell with a smite so even though his slots are lower he can make up that damage by having more slots and being able to use them more effectively.

My guess: he might have missed, that eldritch smite is restricted to pact magic slots. He also missed the shield spell for hexblades.

 

[delph]

I would not agree that Eldritch Smite is the equivalent of, or better than Paladin's Smite. The main problem with ES is you only have 2 pact slots (per short rest) and you can't use regular spell slots for it. You are also giving up ALL of your magic to do that twice which is a big ask for a primary caster. Spells like Fear and Psychic Lance can be game changers and even if you are only counting damage, spells like Spirit Shroud or Hex are going to actually do more total damage I think.

A Paladin also can Nova just as good because he can combine a bonus action smite spell with a smite so even though his slots are lower he can make up that damage by having more slots and being able to use them more effectively.

But you get them back every short rest, Paladin on long-rest... still equal for me.

 

[ECMO3]

But you get them back every short rest, Paladin on long-rest... still equal for me.

But that doesn't make up for it for two reasons. First that is still not many. Even with a full day with 2 short rests that is a total of 6 times you can smite .... or less than once per battle. A 6th level Paladin can smite 7 times regardless of the number of short rests. Yes they are for less damage per smite, but not a lot less and not a lot considering the amount of overall resources spent to do it.

If you multiclass it is even a bigger deal. On a day with 3 short rests a Paladin 6/Hexblade 1 can smite 10 times since he can use all his slots for smiting. a Hexblade 6/Paladin 1 can only smite 6 times. If you go to fewer short rests that gap widens by quite a bit. In a short day without any short rests a Paladin 6/Hexblade 1 can smite 8 times, a Hexblade 6/Paladin 1 can only smite twice.

 

[delph]

But that doesn't make up for it for two reasons. First that is still not many. Even with a full day with 2 short rests that is a total of 6 times you can smite .... or less than once per battle. A 6th level Paladin can smite 7 times regardless of the number of short rests. Yes they are for less damage per smite, but not a lot less and not a lot considering the amount of overall resources spent to do it.

If you multiclass it is even a bigger deal. On a day with 3 short rests a Paladin 6/Hexblade 1 can smite 10 times since he can use all his slots for smiting. a Hexblade 6/Paladin 1 can only smite 6 times. If you go to fewer short rests that gap widens by quite a bit. In a short day without any short rests a Paladin 6/Hexblade 1 can smite 8 times, a Hexblade 6/Paladin 1 can only smite twice.

yes, when you are alone... but when you are in party where are more melee companions than ranged, then eldritch smite is bigger deal. Knock prone without save can game change much more than doing two smites more....