Multiple similar save ends effects

[Asmor]

Scenario: The PCs are fighting a blade spider, which for a standard action can make 2 attacks. Each attack gives 5 ongoing poison if it hits.

So if both attacks hit, does that mean the PC has 5 ongoing damage twice? (i.e. he only takes 5 damage, but needs to make 2 saves to be completely rid of it) Or do they not stack like that, and he only gets poisoned once?

What if it's a different blade spider?

What if it's a different ability from a different creature that also happens to give ongoing 5 poison?

 

[Plane Sailing]

My working assumption is that you save once per condition (no matter how many times that condition has been applied).

Ongoing Poison 5 and Ongoing fire 5? Two saves needed.

Ongoing Poison 5 and Ongoing poison 5? One save needed (and you are only taking highest ongoing damage each turn)

I couldn't tell you whether this assumption is based on something written in the books or not though!

Cheers

 

[MrMyth]

Plane Sailing has the right of it.

PHB Page 278 gives the details on ongoing damage: damage of different types require a roll against each, while damage of the same type does not stack.

 

[Asmor]

Plane Sailing has the right of it.

PHB Page 278 gives the details on ongoing damage: damage of different types require a roll against each, while damage of the same type does not stack.

Right, the damage doesn't stack, but that doesn't mean they don't exist simultaneously.

E.g. you have immobilize (save ends) and restrained (save ends). Immobilization is a strict subset of restrained, but you have to save against each effect independently; if you save against restrained first, you're still immobilized.

So for example, my understanding is that if you have ongoing 5 poison and ongoing 10 poison, you track both conditions and save against both conditions, but you only take the greater amount of damage.

That's why it gets a bit muddy to me as to whether multiple occurrences of ongoing 5 poison are tracked independently or not. My personal feelings would be that you would track it from different sources, but not multiple copies from the same source.

 

[SadisticFishing]

I'm pretty sure you save against both at the same time, but I'm not sure what page it says that on.

It makes sense, too, though. The reason you'd have to save seperately against Immobilized and Restrained is that there are two different things effecting you - whether it's a psychic grab and a spider's web or a net and paralyzing poison.

 

[Asmor]

I'm pretty sure you save against both at the same time, but I'm not sure what page it says that on.

It makes sense, too, though. The reason you'd have to save seperately against Immobilized and Restrained is that there are two different things effecting you - whether it's a psychic grab and a spider's web or a net and paralyzing poison.

By the same logic, why should two different spider poisons, or a spider poison and a scorpion poison, or even a spider poison and a platypus poison (yes, they're venomous) be rolled into the same save?

Real world logic isn't terribly helpful in a question of rules...

 

[SadisticFishing]

Real world logic often helps if you try to use it to be helpful.

Because you're already poisoned. Your body is working overtime to force out the poison, it's not going to just ignore the other types. Saves against poison are relatively gamist as is, as is "ongoing poison damage" (real poison works more like a disease), so ya just gotta take everything in stride. When I find the page the quote's on (if it's in there), I'll send it your way.

Platypuses (platypi?) are awesome, by the way, but their poison is more of a "you are immobilized and weakened, disease" than an ongoing poison 5.

 

[Asmor]

Real world logic often helps if you try to use it to be helpful.

Because you're already poisoned. Your body is working overtime to force out the poison, it's not going to just ignore the other types. Saves against poison are relatively gamist as is, as is "ongoing poison damage" (real poison works more like a disease), so ya just gotta take everything in stride. When I find the page the quote's on (if it's in there), I'll send it your way.

Platypuses (platypi?) are awesome, by the way, but their poison is more of a "you are immobilized and weakened, disease" than an ongoing poison 5.

Supposed to be incredibly painful, too, isn't it?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So for example, my understanding is that if you have ongoing 5 poison and ongoing 10 poison, you track both conditions and save against both conditions, but you only take the greater amount of damage.

p278 specifies one save per type of damage.

-Hyp.

 

[SadisticFishing]

Too painful to do anything during, or so I hear.

I guess you could slap ongoing damage on top of that, but I think of it more like 3.5's Wrack than actual damage.