Natural reach and spiked chain

[Number47]

Okay, the PHB details what happens when a Large or bigger creature with natural reach wields a reach weapon. So, using a longspear, an ogre can attack things 15 feet or 20 feet away, but not things that are 5 feet or 10 feet away. But what would happen if the ogre used a spiked chain instead of a longspear?

A) Would it be able to attack up to double it's normal reach, plus attack inside its' reach?

B) The spiked chain extends it's natural reach out to 15 feet and it can attack inside its' reach?

C) The spiked chain allows it to attack out to double its' normal reach, plus 5 feet closer to itself than normal?

The problem only gets worse if you look at a creature with 15 foot reach or more.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But what would happen if the ogre used a spiked chain instead of a longspear?

It depends if it's using a Large spiked chain (like a human would) or a Huge spiked chain.

If it's Large, it can attack 5' or 10', as normal.

If it's Huge, it can attack anywhere in its threatened zone, 5'-20'.

Special feature of the spiked chain.

The problem only gets worse if you look at a creature with 15 foot reach or more.

Not really. Most human sized Reach weapons let you attack at double your natural reach, but not within it.

For a Huge creature wielding a Gargantuan reach weapon, it can attack someone at 20', 25', or 30', but not at 5', 10' or 15'. Unless it's a Gargantuan spiked chain.

-Hyp.

 

[Orco42]

Re: Re: Natural reach and spiked chain

It depends if it's using a Large spiked chain (like a human would) or a Huge spiked chain.

If it's Large, it can attack 5' or 10', as normal.

If it's Huge, it can attack anywhere in its threatened zone, 5'-20'.


-Hyp.

Wouldn't a ogre with a large spiked chain reach anywhere out to 15'?

An ogre can reach 5' more than a human so with the chain, IMO, it makes sence for him to be able to reach 15'.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Wouldn't a ogre with a large spiked chain reach anywhere out to 15'?

An ogre can reach 5' more than a human so with the chain, IMO, it makes sence for him to be able to reach 15'.

I'm mostly going by the fact that while the change in reach is specifically noted for an Ogre (10' reach) using a Huge longspear (15'-20' reach) in the MM, an Ettin (10' reach) using a Large longspear is given no special note. One might expect he could use it at 10' or 15' but not 5', maybe.

That's what made me decide. Of course, the Ettin is described as using the longspear as a ranged weapon rather than a melee weapon, so one can easily argue that that's why there's no note.

A lot of it depends on what's integral to the weapon, and what comes from the natural reach of the monster. For example - if a Medium cleric with a Large longspear (exclusive reach 10') casts a Righteous Might spell, he becomes a Large cleric with a Huge longspear. What's his reach now?

What if it were a Large greataxe (5' reach) becoming a Huge greataxe?

There's a (obviously non-Core) feat in the latest Netbook called "Gigantic Weapon", that - similar idea to Monkey Grip - allows someone to use a weapon two sizes larger than themselves with two hands, at a -2 attack penalty. What's the reach on a Medium character using a Huge greataxe? A Huge longspear? A Huge spiked chain?

-Hyp.

 

[Orco42]

For example - if a Medium cleric with a Large longspear (exclusive reach 10') casts a Righteous Might spell, he becomes a Large cleric with a Huge longspear. What's his reach now?

What if it were a Large greataxe (5' reach) becoming a Huge greataxe?

There's a (obviously non-Core) feat in the latest Netbook called "Gigantic Weapon", that - similar idea to Monkey Grip - allows someone to use a weapon two sizes larger than themselves with two hands, at a -2 attack penalty. What's the reach on a Medium character using a Huge greataxe? A Huge longspear? A Huge spiked chain?

-Hyp.

I'd say the cleric gets a 20' reach. (+5 from size even though the spell does not say so, and +5 for the weapon increasing)

I'm not sure about the Great Ax since it is not a reach weapon.

I have seen that feat, with the Long Spear or Chain I would say 15' reach.

Good points and questions.

I do like your point.... when a battle ax is just one step larger (in size and damage) than a hand ax but there is no reach gained.

Damn... now I don't know what to do.

 

[Iku Rex]

PHB page 132: "Large or bigger creatures with reach weapons can strike out to double their natural reach but can't strike at their natural reach or less."

A longspear is a reach weapon. A Large creature with 10' natural reach will have a 20' reach with a longspear.

(If the reach weapon is Large sized I'd let/make the large creature make attacks at 10-15' instead of 15-20', but strictly by the rules the later is correct.)

 

[Hypersmurf]

PHB page 132: "Large or bigger creatures with reach weapons can strike out to double their natural reach but can't strike at their natural reach or less."

A longspear is a reach weapon. A Large creature with 10' natural reach will have a 20' reach with a longspear.

(If the reach weapon is Large sized I'd let/make the large creature make attacks at 10-15' instead of 15-20', but strictly by the rules the later is correct.)

[frowns] I'm wondering if you have to assume the Reach Weapon is scaled to the size of the creature for that rule to make sense.

According to that, a Storm Giant with a Gargantuan greatsword (two steps larger than a normal greatsword - it'd have to be over ten feet long, surely?) can attack anyone from 5'-15'... but with a Large Longspear (10' long) he can attack anyone 20'-30' away, but no closer. Despite the fact that 10' long only barely reaches from his shoulder down to the head of the 6' human attacking his ankle... let alone one standing 15' away. ... and that the length of his arm plus the length of the spear only just reaches 25' - how can he attack someone standing 30' away?

When is a Reach Weapon not a Reach Weapon? At some point, when the size disparity between the creature and the weapon becomes too much, it must cease to be a Reach Weapon for that creature...

-Hyp.