Natural Weapon & Non-Full Round Attacks

[DMFTodd]

I've always thought that a creature with natural weapons could make all of his primary attacks as a partial action. A carrion crawler, for example, could move and make all 8 tentacle attacks. An achaieri (2 Claws, Bite) could make both claw attacks and still move but not the bite.

I can't find the rule that mentions that. Am I making it up?

 

[Kraedin]

You're making it up. If you move, you can only attack once with a natural weapon.

 

[Tyrrell]

In fact, it is a special ability of the hydra to be able to attack multiple times after making a move. This certainly wouldn't be special if every other critter (and monk) in the world got to do the same thing.

 

[dcollins]

I can't find the rule that mentions that. Am I making it up?

You're mistaken. MM p. 7 specifically states that monsters must use a full-round attack to use all their weapons. Otherwise, they only get one attack.

 

[Ferox4]

make believe

In addition to the other posters correct assessments, remember that creatures are at -5 with their secondary attacks unless they have the Multiattack feat which still makes them -2.

Some creatures have extraordinary abilities that allow them to use multiple attacks with their partial action. The Hydra was mentioned and many quadrapedal creatures have the Pounce extraordinary ability.

Play the creatures to their best tactical advantage - at least as well as their Int or Wis allows them.

 

[Murrdox]

We've made this mistake as well in my group in the past.

We used to think that when a creature listing specified "2 Claws, +10, bite +8" for example... that meant that the creature could move 30 feet and make 2 claw attacks, since the 2 claws is listed as one attack. In a Full Attack, the creature can use 2 claws and a bite. Oh how wrong we were.

And I still don't understand exactly how pounce works... I've ran into that a lot lately ever since my Druid got a Dire Tiger companion.

 

[IceBear]

And I still don't understand exactly how pounce works... I've ran into that a lot lately ever since my Druid got a Dire Tiger companion.

All Pounce means is that the creature can move and make a Full Attack action in the first round of combat (which might include Rake). The description in MM2, changes "first round of combat" to "whenever the creature charges" which I like (for animal intelligence), but my good friend Daniel has a point with how this could be unbalanced with a druid.

IceBear

 

[Murrdox]

How would this be imbalanced for a Druid?

I'm assuming that a Dire Tiger would pounce whenever it had the opportunity to do so. If a Tiger mauls an opponent, finishes him off, and another one is 10 feet away, on its next turn the Dire Tiger is unlikely to simply walk over and claw at its foe, it would (in my mind) pounce upon its next opponent just like it had done with the first one.

I'm not sure what you mean by imbalancing.

 

[IceBear]

How would this be imbalanced for a Druid?

I'm assuming that a Dire Tiger would pounce whenever it had the opportunity to do so. If a Tiger mauls an opponent, finishes him off, and another one is 10 feet away, on its next turn the Dire Tiger is unlikely to simply walk over and claw at its foe, it would (in my mind) pounce upon its next opponent just like it had done with the first one.

I'm not sure what you mean by imbalancing.

I guess the thought is the dire tiger is pretty fearsome and allowing it to get a full attack pretty much at will (someone more than 5ft away) might be a bit much. In your scenario with the original MM pounce, the dire tiger would get a full attack on opponent #1, but if it had to move more than 5ft to attack someone else after round #1 it would only get a single attack. With the MM2 interpretation, it would get a full attack on anyone more than 5ft away from it.

Me, I don't like the rule inconsistency that there is something special about the first round, but this does make pouncing creatures more powerful.

Edit: Hmmm - they should have just said that with surprise it can make a full attack on a partial charge. That I could buy. It would severely limit the power of this ability, but really, that's what the great cats do - sneak up on something and then pounce on it.

IceBear

 

[Murrdox]

Well, thank god in 3.5 there won't be any such thing as a "partial charge" anymore.

I thought that the pounce ability only lets it get 2 extra claw attacks (with the hind legs)... I don't have the text in front of me, but I don't think the pounce let's you bite. You just get two claw rakes.

I dunno... the only time I ever see a great cat standing around clawing at something is vs. a lion tamer or something it's trying to fend off. When it gets serious, you always see footage of tigers and lions and such running, chasing down, and leaping onto their prey. Basically, I'd assume that a Tiger is ALWAYS charging if it's moving to engage... it just seems like the kind of tactic the animal would use.

I'd always rule the cat has to move at least 10 feet to charge. I just don't get the point of "partial charges" and it looks like they're going to be removed anyways.