Necromancer base class [P.E.A.C.H.]

[Greyfeld]

I'm not really happy with WotC's tacking on of Necromancy onto the Wizard, so I've decided to take up the challenge of building a base Necromancer class from the ground-up. I've got the most of the basics in place, and currently working on the powers. I'd like a little constructive commentary, whether it be on the balance of the class features, the power level of the at-wills, power suggestions for later levels, paragon path ideas, or anything else you can think of. Most of all, I'd just like to know if I'm on the right path before I go any further.

Please don't post just to make comments about how crappy the layout looks.

I'm using the wiki on Myth-Weavers to keep all my information, so you can see the class here.

 

[SimonTVesper]

I love the class features. The wording on Corrupted Touch is confusing, but I think I understand: use a necrotic power, and a generated effect lasts 1 turn longer, or receives a penalty to the save. Personally, I think Desecrated Ground is the better ability, but they seem balanced enough.

I'd suggest dropping the vulnerable 5 radiant; in general I've seen very, very few penalties for player characters as a part of the character's class (or race, or feat). It's not that it's a terribly ability -- after all, how many monsters are slinging around radiant damage? -- it's just that it feels wrong.

Grasping Hands is way too good for an encounter power. IIRC, there are almost no encounter powers that create zones. A zone is something that pretty much permanently alters the battlefield. I say "pretty much" because most zones have Sustain: Minor, so unless you have to use that minor action for something else, the zone will last until the fight is over. And after a short rest, the necromancer is ready to lock down opponents in the next fight, and the next one, and the next... Also, when do you get the secondary effect? As it reads now, you get it twice before the zone goes away (assuming you let it): once when you use the power, and once when a creature starts its turn in the zone.

Rotting Zombies also seems a bit much. A first level daily that lets me make four attacks? About average, considering that I may miss, and the damage isn't that great. But each attack lets me grab the target? Awesome. Totally awesome. Because anything that prevents my enemy from engaging me or my allies is awesome.

Then again, I'm no expert, and I haven't played as much I would like, so I could be wrong. There may be powers that I haven't seen that are just as good as those two.

Overall I think it's a good construction. Except Grasping Hands. That's just mean...

 

[the Jester]

(I just have to say, the PEACH acronym is totally lame. This isn't some kid-gloves website where everyone affirms everyone else's bad ideas. We always give honest criticism here.

Hover your mouse over the word "PEACH" and you'll see I'm not the only one to think so.)

That said, I think this is overpowered on the whole, at least from what I have read so far.

Corrupted Shadows entails too much tracking- all the condition tracking in 4e is bad enough as it is- and "until end of turn" durations are arguably better than "save ends" at one round, since there's virtually no way to overcome it.

I also think Feed the Darkness is way overpowered. Basically, stay in the back, never run out of daily/encounter powers until the rest of the party's almost ready to rest for the day anyway.

Chill touch inflicts too large of a penalty at higher levels, too; imagine this against a solo. Likewise, Unsettling Visions seems too good for an at will; I can't think of another one that makes someone grant combat advantage for more than one attack/against one target.

For a 1st level encounter power, Corrupted Senses seems a bit much too.

That's as far as I got.

 

[Greyfeld]

(I just have to say, the PEACH acronym is totally lame. This isn't some kid-gloves website where everyone affirms everyone else's bad ideas. We always give honest criticism here.

Hover your mouse over the word "PEACH" and you'll see I'm not the only one to think so.)

*Shrugs* I typed it out that way when I posted it on GITP, and just pasted it the same way over here. If it offends you in some way, I don't really know what to say to that.

Corrupted Shadows entails too much tracking- all the condition tracking in 4e is bad enough as it is- and "until end of turn" durations are arguably better than "save ends" at one round, since there's virtually no way to overcome it.

I assume you meant Corrupted Touch.

Personally, I'm all for making things simple, but I'm not going to change a class feature because somebody doesn't like tracking status effects. If that's the case, they probably shouldn't be playing a controller in the first place.

However, if you can elaborate on why it's unbalanced or overpowered in some way, I'd be happy to hear anything you have to say. Suggestions on how to bring it into line would be helpful as well.

I also think Feed the Darkness is way overpowered. Basically, stay in the back, never run out of daily/encounter powers until the rest of the party's almost ready to rest for the day anyway.

Feed the Darkness is one of those features that I thought could go either way. It takes healing surges to use, but if you can avoid needing to use your surges to heal yourself, there's no risk involved in burning them to power your offensive capabilities. I would like to keep the general flavor the same (sacrifice your own health to power your onslaught), but I have no problem with changing the feature as long as it has the same vibe.

Chill touch inflicts too large of a penalty at higher levels, too; imagine this against a solo. Likewise, Unsettling Visions seems too good for an at will; I can't think of another one that makes someone grant combat advantage for more than one attack/against one target.

Is a -4 penalty going to be worth that much at level 21? It would be strong against a solo, but between being melee and single-target, that would be the only situation that it would be especially useful in. Any combat with multiple enemies is going to see the necro get beat on just to land that power. I wanted to make it useful, despite not triggering either class feature.

Concerning Unsettling Visions, Druids have the Swarming Locusts at-will power which creates a 3x3 zone where all enemies inside grant combat advantage. I might decide to change it from "enemies" to "creatures" though, since in its current incarnation, you can basically spam it with abandon, regardless of ally position.

For a 1st level encounter power, Corrupted Senses seems a bit much too.

Why?

 

[Greyfeld]

I love the class features. The wording on Corrupted Touch is confusing, but I think I understand: use a necrotic power, and a generated effect lasts 1 turn longer, or receives a penalty to the save. Personally, I think Desecrated Ground is the better ability, but they seem balanced enough.

Yeah, that's the gist of it. I know it's not worded very well, but I had a hard time figuring out how to word it properly. I'm sure I'll fix it eventually.

I'd suggest dropping the vulnerable 5 radiant; in general I've seen very, very few penalties for player characters as a part of the character's class (or race, or feat). It's not that it's a terribly ability -- after all, how many monsters are slinging around radiant damage? -- it's just that it feels wrong.

I thought it would be interesting to grant them vulnerability to radiant damage to signify their tie to shadow and necrotic damage. It's more of a flavor thing, really.

Grasping Hands is way too good for an encounter power. IIRC, there are almost no encounter powers that create zones. A zone is something that pretty much permanently alters the battlefield. I say "pretty much" because most zones have Sustain: Minor, so unless you have to use that minor action for something else, the zone will last until the fight is over. And after a short rest, the necromancer is ready to lock down opponents in the next fight, and the next one, and the next... Also, when do you get the secondary effect? As it reads now, you get it twice before the zone goes away (assuming you let it): once when you use the power, and once when a creature starts its turn in the zone.

Actually, there are plenty of at-will and encounter powers that generate zones. It's just that daily powers with zones tend to have the "sustain" tag on them.

That said, I was going back and forth on this a lot, whether to make it encounter or daily. I patterned it after the Wizard's Grease spell in wording. The thing is, the "sustain minor" is only available for those who took Desecrated Ground as a class feature, which made me want to make it an Encounter power. Maybe I'll just make it sustainable by any necro, and bump it to a daily.

You get to use the secondary attack any time a creature moves into the zone or starts its turn inside the zone. So, it triggers however many times that situation comes up while the zone is active.

Rotting Zombies also seems a bit much. A first level daily that lets me make four attacks? About average, considering that I may miss, and the damage isn't that great. But each attack lets me grab the target? Awesome. Totally awesome. Because anything that prevents my enemy from engaging me or my allies is awesome.

I was actually thinking about dropping it to 1 zombie summoned. I don't have any personal gameplay experience with summoned minions or undead in 4e, so I went with two zombies to start with, assuming they'd be weak and easily disposed of. But if it's not as bad as I thought, I'll drop it down to 1 zombie. It'll give me a lower starting threshold for ramping up the power of summoning dailies in future levels, anyway.

 

[the Jester]

Is a -4 penalty going to be worth that much at level 21?

Absolutely. In 4e, a -4 penalty is equally nasty at 1st or 30th level. Speaking as the dm of a cleric who uses Iron to Glass on the nastiest bad guy whenever he can, I can assure you that big penalties make monsters/villains FAR less effective, which is very frustrating for the dm and makes the players feel like they beat a much-less-tough-than-actual monster.

(Concerning Corrupted Senses) Why?

Blind and deaf until end of next turn just seems pretty nasty for a first-level power. I haven't actually compared it to anything else, but it's far better than a "grants combat advantage" or "-4 to attacks until next round" type of effect.

 

[Greyfeld]

Blind and deaf until end of next turn just seems pretty nasty for a first-level power. I haven't actually compared it to anything else, but it's far better than a "grants combat advantage" or "-4 to attacks until next round" type of effect.

It's also melee and single target. But I suppose like Chill Touch, it could be a little strong against solos and elites for something you pick up at level 1.

Would it be better as a daily, or as a level 3 encounter power?

 

[the Jester]

It's also melee and single target. But I suppose like Chill Touch, it could be a little strong against solos and elites for something you pick up at level 1.

Would it be better as a daily, or as a level 3 encounter power?

Probably either one would work.

 

[Greyfeld]

I decided to bump it up to a daily, because if it's overpowered at level 1, it's overpowered at any level as an encounter power. It's just as big a power play against solo elites at level 30 as it is at level 1, with only damage to really make the difference between the two.

I also took Unsettling Visions and changed it into an Encounter power, keeping it "enemies in burst." I still need to come up with one or two more encounter powers for level 1 though, because of all the changes I've made.

 

[Greyfeld]

After doing some more thinking last night, I decided to make a few more changes.

First and foremost, I added a third option under "Twisted Magic," related to powers with the Fear key word.

Secondly, I changed all the Twisted magic options from static bonuses to encounter powers. I wanted to keep the effects, but they just seemed too powerful for static class features. As encounter powers, they can keep their power level, because they're limited in use.

Which brings me to my third major change. Feed the Darkness no longer allows you to regain any encounter/daily power. Instead, it allows you to recharge your class feature encounter power. This makes it useful without being overpowered, and meshes well with the other class abilities.

And finally, I took... somebody's advice, I can't remember who said it, and took the Radiant vulnerability off of Corrupt Soul.