Necromancers...Who else wants them?

[Takhisis]

As far as 4e goes, there are few options for "dark" heroes other then the striker roll. While a warlock or assassin can make a fine "dark" hero, other rolls like the controller, leader ect... lack a truly "dark" class, and as somebody who likes those rolls and prefers the dark side to the light one, I have been looking for a truly "dark" class for 4E which is not a striker, for a change.

The class in question? The Necromancer. Necromancers have always been an iconic part of D&D really since 2e. The image of a dark mage commanding undead minions and draining enemies of their power with dark energy has been one which has been ingrained in the heads of some players, some who would like to see such a class in 4e.

Now, I know 4e really dose not want you to be evil, hence why a Necromancer class has yet to be made, but 4e also seams fine with allowing evil characters to run around scoring enemies with light based powers.(Paladins can be evil now...after all.) So if in 4e powers themselves are not inherently good or evil(If they where, evil paladins would be a separate class using necrotic instead of radiant attacks, same with evil clerics.) but rather the person using them makes them good or evil, then I don't see why there could not be a hero who uses necromancy perhaps because they have a morbid fascination with the undead or otherwise feel a connection to them. I mean, I don't see how animating corpses and draining people's life force is any more evil then selling your soul to demons or other nasties for power and wizards seems fine with heroic Warlocks. So, I really think a necromancer class would work in 4e, and is needed, so people who like darker/more sinister powers but want to play a non-striker have an option on hand.

So, do any of you here share my sentiments? Is a necromancer needed in 4e? If not, to you agree there should be some non-striker classes with a "darker" flavor? If not the necromancer, what classes should those be?

Also, on another note, for those who want a necromancer class for their 4e games, check out the "Dread Necromancer" by ThePlanesWalker of Wizards forums. It's what I use as a temp right now until wizards makes a real necromancer class and it works wonderful. It is also fully completed with paragon paths, special feats, epic destinies and high level abilities...and it all comes in a rather well made pdf. I highly suggest that necromancer fans or people who want a darker controller or leader(Since it can do either reasonably well, leaning slightly to the controller side.) check it out.

 

[DracoSuave]

As far as 4e goes, there are few options for "dark" heroes other then the striker roll. While a warlock or assassin can make a fine "dark" hero, other rolls like the controller, leader ect... lack a truly "dark" class.

Invoker?

Anything involving the Raven Queen?

The thing to understand with the classic necromancer, is that they're not taking bones and making telekinetic puppets out of them. They are taking souls and warping them to animate undead. That's not a 'dark' act, that's an act of pure evil.

That's like having a PC class called 'Maiden Kidnapper' to team up with 'Villiage Burner' and 'Kingdom Enslaver'. Your 'shtick' happens to be 'do terrible evil' and it's hard to justify that as a heroic class.

Anti-heroes aren't the supervillains in their tales, usually.

 

[Takhisis]

I had assumed that what was animating undead was not souls, but negative energy/necrotic energy. At least that's what 3.5 flavor dictated. So, if you use negative energy as the animating force and not actual souls, it's no more evil then what a hell pact or dark pact warlock dose. Under that flavor, zombies are not dead people forced into slavery but corpse puppets animated by necrotic energy. Also, invoker is hardly a dark class like the warlock or assassin. It still uses a lot of radiant, from what I remember. As for the raven queen, I suppose a cleric of the raven queen is somewhat dark personality wise, but he's still summoning angels and throwing around radiant keyword powers left and right. The closest thing we really have to a "dark" character that is not a striker would be a malediction invoker, though a malediction invoker is not as dark as say a warlock or assassin would be.

 

[circadianwolf]

Eh? Most undead are soulless according to 4E. By most accounts they are simply taking bones and making telekinetic puppets out of them.

 

[mneme]

Indeed. In any case, a Necromancer is pretty clearly a Shadow controller (or maybe shadow leader).

There are a not unreasonable number of good necromancers in fiction (though they usually didn't summon up undead minions; quite the reverse, usually) -- the heroes of the Abhorsen novels and maybe Tanith Lee's Kill the Dead come to mind.

 

[Takhisis]

Indeed, hence why I mentioned the dread necromancer made by ThePlanesWalker in the original post. It is in fact a shadow power source controller, with leader as a secondary.(Though you can build it to be a decent leader if you know what your doing.) There are other homebrew necromancers on the web, but all of them that I have seen are not completed beyond the heroic tier. Thus, the "Dread Necromancer" works great as a necro for now, though I would love an official wizards class.

As for heroic Necromancers, I have seen a series which features a main character that is in fact a Necromancer. I forget the name of the series, however. Also, "dark mages" have been heroic in a few anime/manga series as well as some American comics. The Slayers had a "heroic" dark mage I forget the name of. Yugioh has the Dark Magician and Dark Magician girl. Raven of the Teen Titans comes to mind as a "dark mage" who is heroic from western comics. While not exactly necromancers, those characters show the idea of a mage who uses dark magic for good is not uncommon in fiction and could easily translate into 4e as a Necromancer or some other class with a "dark" flavor, such as the "Shadowcaster."

 

[Cormacolinde]

The thing to understand with the classic necromancer, is that they're not taking bones and making telekinetic puppets out of them. They are taking souls and warping them to animate undead. That's not a 'dark' act, that's an act of pure evil.

Actually as others have mentioned, most undead in 4e are imbued with the "animus", and not the soul. It can retain memories and physical abilities of the deceased, but it is not possession as such. Some undead contain dregs of soul, and a few actually imprison the soul, but those are mostly self-willed undead like lich, not created by external forces.

Take a look at the fluff in Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead, it's pretty interesting and explains this stuff a lot better than I could.

This being said, a necromancer could be a shadow power controller who uses animus to animate matter into servants or direct shadow/necrotic power. It would actually be pretty cool.

 

[renau1g]

When are we going to get Shadow Power source phb4? 1 more year of waiting? Man...that sucks. I love me some necromancers

 

[Felon]

The shadow power source makes sense for the necromancer, but from a mechancial point-of-view, it could just as easily be a new build option for a wizard. Wizards already have spells that tap necrotic energy. Just add the appropriate summoning dailies.

 

[Felon]

What exactly should a necromancer do that an existing class doesn't do?

The shadow power source makes sense for the necromancer, but from a mechancial point-of-view, it could just as easily be a new build option for a wizard. Wizards already have spells that tap necrotic energy. Just add the appropriate summoning dailies, and maybe create some rituals for longer-lasting undead.