Need Help with Fremlin PC

Raflar · Apr 23, 2004

I have a player that wants to play a Fremlin (winged Gremlin) from the Creature Catalogue but wants to start at 1st level with the rest of the group (Kobold Rogue and Goblin Monk) so I need to make Racial Levels for him to take in between Wizard levels.

I don't have Savage Species handy so I look to you for aid. I was thinking only 2-3 levels are needed. Here are the stats (as per Creature Catalogue HTML page)
Fremlin
Tiny Monstrous Humanoid
Hit Dice: 3d8 (13)
Initiative: +2 (Dex)
Speed: 15 ft, fly 30 ft (good)
AC: 14 (+2 size, +2 Dex)
Attacks: Bite +6 melee
Damage: Bite 1d4-1
Face/Reach: 2 1/2 ft by 2 1/2 ft/0 ft
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/+1, darkvision 60 ft
Saves: Fort +1 Ref +5 Will +3
Abilities: Str 8 Dex 14 Con 10 Int 10 Wis 10 Chr 11
Skills: Listen +14, Move Silently +10, Spot +10
Feats: Weapon Finesse (bite)

If I can get this by Sunday that would be AWESOME.. thanks.

Darklone · Apr 24, 2004

Let's see...

DR and flying. Tiny size... shouldn't the base speed be 10ft? Or do I confuse it with AUs Faen?

str -2, dex +4. That's tough. Small size would be LA -1... I wouldn't give more for tiny.

+2 LA adjustment for fly speed (good).

Natural attack bite: Well, you would gain a secondary attack even if wielding a tiny greatsword... +1. Though I don't think that's really too strong. I forget about it compared to the tiny size.

Should the bite attack be at +7? I mean, +2 size, +3 BAB, +2 Dex (with Finesse)? Or am I wrong about the BAB?

Woah, DR is not listed? Strange.

I'd go with a LA +3 at ECL 6. So six racial levels since you already include 3 racial levels for the HD.

Tessarael · Apr 24, 2004

Darklone said:
+2 LA adjustment for fly speed (good).

In Savage Species, I thought the level adjustment for being able to fly was +1 LA. I really don't think it's worth more than that. Give me 2 levels and I'll start thinking about not flying and taking more spellcaster levels to do it with magic (and not have the problem of falling from the air when I'm over half my damage).

So I'd suggest LA +2. However, if there's DR, it should be more ...

Just my thoughts ...

Darklone · Apr 25, 2004

Tessarael said:
In Savage Species, I thought the level adjustment for being able to fly was +1 LA. I really don't think it's worth more than that.

They scale it with maneuverability (page 11). Better than good is a +2... actually being able to make full attack actions as a flying archer can become pretty unbalancing.

Give me 2 levels and I'll start thinking about not flying and taking more spellcaster levels to do it with magic (and not have the problem of falling from the air when I'm over half my damage).

Oops? IIRC that was a AD&D rule... I never read about that in 3rd edition. Looks like a houserule.

So I'd suggest LA +2. However, if there's DR, it should be more ...

Just my thoughts ...

LA +2 might do it, but as you said the DR might help a lot... Either it's very strong or useless. Same with flying. I'd go with DR 5/magic though.

Raflar · Apr 26, 2004

Thanks for your help. Here's what we've come up with....

Starting character at 1st level wizard,
- has with small wings (can't fly yet) but gives a +4 to climb, jump and balance checks
- darkvision 60'
- wizard HP and abilities
- can opt for Racial Levels to gain extra Fremlin goodness

Fremlin Racial Levels
1 - Wings mature - Fly (good)
2 - DR 5/magic
3 - DR 10/magic

For the most part I'm not too concerned about balance because the player is going to play a total coward with barely any offensive spells at all. I run a pretty loose and fun game where the story is more important than rules, but I don't want this to get out of hand either.

Thanks for your help. Of course the headache continues as we've added a Quickling Cleric to the mix.... I think I'll use the Faen - Quickling from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed... If I survive this campaign it'll take a miracle....

mongralman · Dec 9, 2021

Raflar said:
Thanks for your help. Here's what we've come up with....

Starting character at 1st level wizard,
- has with small wings (can't fly yet) but gives a +4 to climb, jump and balance checks
- darkvision 60'
- wizard HP and abilities
- can opt for Racial Levels to gain extra Fremlin goodness

Fremlin Racial Levels
1 - Wings mature - Fly (good)
2 - DR 5/magic
3 - DR 10/magic

For the most part I'm not too concerned about balance because the player is going to play a total coward with barely any offensive spells at all. I run a pretty loose and fun game where the story is more important than rules, but I don't want this to get out of hand either.

Thanks for your help. Of course the headache continues as we've added a Quickling Cleric to the mix.... I think I'll use the Faen - Quickling from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed... If I survive this campaign it'll take a miracle....

I

Raflar said:
I have a player that wants to play a Fremlin (winged Gremlin) from the Creature Catalogue but wants to start at 1st level with the rest of the group (Kobold Rogue and Goblin Monk) so I need to make Racial Levels for him to take in between Wizard levels.

I don't have Savage Species handy so I look to you for aid. I was thinking only 2-3 levels are needed. Here are the stats (as per Creature Catalogue HTML page)
Fremlin
Tiny Monstrous Humanoid
Hit Dice: 3d8 (13)
Initiative: +2 (Dex)
Speed: 15 ft, fly 30 ft (good)
AC: 14 (+2 size, +2 Dex)
Attacks: Bite +6 melee
Damage: Bite 1d4-1
Face/Reach: 2 1/2 ft by 2 1/2 ft/0 ft
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/+1, darkvision 60 ft
Saves: Fort +1 Ref +5 Will +3
Abilities: Str 8 Dex 14 Con 10 Int 10 Wis 10 Chr 11
Skills: Listen +14, Move Silently +10, Spot +10
Feats: Weapon Finesse (bite)

If I can get this by Sunday that would be AWESOME.. thanks.

I have played a fremlin before, 2nd edition. Flight, tiny fey, and immune to non magical weapons, did not mean I couldn't be punted like a football or put in a sack and spun till dizzy, just no damage. Adding say stunned and dizzy or fuzzy makes for hillarious results. Being magic and tinkerer, but a coward, must roll wisdom save with disadvantage or run away scared for say first 5 levels and then normal wisdom save from then on. Skill is hiding and tinkerer, gains cantrips minor illusion and prestidigitation. Fly speed is 25 and walk is 10. Does it's best to get out of work, and being carried is even better.