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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Malmuria" data-source="post: 8375962" data-attributes="member: 7030755">Related question: how closely do the mechanics and fiction need to be associated?I'm not an expert on The Forge, but it seemed their problem with dnd was that there were all sorts of ways that the types of stories it wanted to tell were not supported by the mechanics (including the mechanics of racial asi, level and class restrictions, etc).  I suppose this idea eventually leads to Dungeon World, where race is actually a subset of class, and grants special moves.  That is, it turns abilities into piles of narrative moves that are then subject to various restrictions for the purposes of creating theme.Conversely, you had 4e, which <a href="https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/17231/roleplaying-games/dissociated-mechanics-a-brief-primer" target="_blank">some argued</a> felt weird to play because it dissociated the mechanics from the fiction of the world, creating a 'board game' feel.Finally, you have the ideas of the "<a href="https://d66kobolds.blogspot.com/2021/03/play-worlds-not-rules-design-challenge.html" target="_blank">Free Kriegspiel Revival</a>," whose motto is "play worlds, not rules."  As it pertains to this discussion, it questions the whole idea that a racial asi really has anything to do with archetype.  Rather, if we know the narrative logic of the world, we can create and extrapolate the necessary rules/mechanics as we go.  So, if you get a bunch of Star Wars nerds together to play a game and give them some dice, they will be more or less able to play a coherent Star Wars games, not because the mechanical complexity "matches" the narrative, but because they've already internalized some much about the world and the types of stories it tells.  Interesting <a href="https://youtu.be/QpvIHarLiE4" target="_blank">discussion/debate about this here</a>.</blockquote>

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