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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pickles JG" data-source="post: 6478235" data-attributes="member: 61501">Some of the problem is that the steakth rules are written from a very human centric position.  A bat or dog or Shark whose primary sesne is not sight would be able to se through some purely visual block eg darkness but would, presumablyy be foiled by other environmental conditions - noise or smells or electromagnetic fields maybeWhether it is intended that   rogues can spoof these other senses or not is not clear to me. I am inclined to say that they are and that blindsightis a catchall for most none visual senses. How you avoid them exactly is not at all clear and has massive scope for GM intervention. I think Celtavian's interprertation is one  extreme but just ab.t within the bounds. It certainly fits for people meeting new monsters for the first time and having no idea how their senses work and so how to defeat them. Presumably someone in the FR knows how dragon's senses work and could find out all of the specific precautions to defeat each of them. However it may be that a dragon has such A suite od senses (scent, air pressure sensitivity, "tremorsense", electromagnetic field detection to say nothing of super keenhearing  and sight that works into the infra red and xray spectrums) that it is not possible to hide from all of these. On the other hand it may be that even with all these sensors a dragon cannnot attend to them all at knce so may miss something (as with people missing something in front of them - wheres waldo). That would be covered by his perception skill.This all seems to highlight a corollary of the rulings appproach. Any DM can come to a semsible consitent approach but discussing it is not going to be productive due to the massive divergence of interpretation</blockquote>

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