D&D General OGL, Pinkertons and WOTC Oh My!

[AlViking]

I wanted to create one thread where people can discuss to their hearts content about the OGL changes proposed by WOTC in late 2022. I'm going to break this up into 3 posts - 2 about the OGL and 1 about the Pinkertons. This first post is my attempt at a neutral description of what happened, if you want to add details that I missed let me know and I'll edit. If you want to complain that I'm not providing a vehemently angry quick summary or want to to talk about the impact the change would have had on the community please don't respond to this first post.

In any case, a brief version of what happened:
In December of 2022 WotC sent a proposed new version of the OGL to third-party publishers requiring them to report their gross revenue from D&D-related products. Anyone earning over $750,000 would owe WotC a percentage of their profits. This clashed with the original OGL, which allowed perpetual use of the core rules at no charge and without oversite. The new version of the OGL was leaked in January of 2022.

After significant backlash from third-party creators and the D&D community, WotC reversed course. They cancelled the changes to the OGL and placed the core rules under Creative Commons. In further developments D&D Beyond now supports third-party product sales.

More details here: Wizards of the Coast Walks Back Leaked OGL 2.0 Draft

edit - wrong year.
edit - changed dollar amount.
e

 

[AlViking]

My opinion on what happened:
Someone at WotC made a poor decision, and they should have known better. I don’t believe it was an attempt to shut down third-party creators; more likely, someone looked at licensing models in other industries and assumed a similar approach would work here. It didn’t. The important part is that WotC listened and changed direction—something not every company would do. They should never have proposed the new contract, but the final outcome was positive.

To me, this is water under the bridge. I don’t see the value in bringing it up in every discussion about WotC’s business practices. They didn’t double down, they didn’t try to force the contract, and they didn’t take anyone to court. They backed off. People make mistakes and I judge WotC by what they’re doing now not by a misstep, even an idiotically stupid one, they corrected years ago.

 

[AlViking]

For the Pinkertons issue, I don't have a lot to say. A podcaster that opens up MtG cards for his stream received a version of the cards that had not been released yet. WotC hired the Pinkertons as a private security company to retrieve the cards. I'm not going to bother linking to other blogposts about this because after I found the transcripts, all I can say is that many seem to be inaccurate at best. In any case the transcript from the podcasts that talk about this

Spoiler: Original Podcast

welcome back cardboard workers how's
everybody out there doing today it's
been a crazy month uh it was a really
crazy morning.

I got up and was doing some videos
recording some videos and I did a
recorded a regular March of the machine
collector's box opening before the
events unraveled of the morning so that
may be a little confusing what I'm
saying in that video so take that with a
grain of salt.

I I right after I got done with the
video dogs are barking because
Somebody's knocking at the door uh I
come out and my wife's answering the
door and it was the pinkertons uh if
you're not familiar with the pinkertons
check them out uh yeah it's like kind of
a big deal they're uh they're the
largest private security firm in like
the world I think

the big heavy hitter guys anyway I think
I'm knocking on the door to recover the
stolen product from which is the coast
which was the margin machine aftermath
stuff it wasn't stolen product just to
clear the record as far as I know
nothing was stolen

what I believe happened was the names
are too similar March of the machine
merge the machine aftermath
somebody screwed up and sent out the
wrong cases to the gentleman that I bought the the
boxes off of because when he sold me the
stuff he said he saw me March of the
machine collector's boxes not aftermath uh he's
not a magic guy he's a more Pokemon
Yu-Gi-Oh uh guy I believe uh he just
does magic as because it's all you know
all the card games it just does them all
but he didn't even know what aftermath
really was I don't think

so I don't think he stole anything I
think it was just he got the cases
thinking they were March the machine
some of me thinking they were March the
machine I bought them thinking they were
March of the machine I didn't know until
after I give him the money and opened
the box to look at the the boxes inside
that they were aftermath so because they
still just like say March of the machine
on the outside of the boxes too so I
don't know um I don't want to get too
much into the story the videos are taken
down now

the pinkertons actually gave me the
number to somebody at Wizards of the
Coast that was asking them to have me
call them so I did I called Wizards the
coast and talked to a gentleman there it
was very nice and very apologetic about
making my wife cry first thing in the
morning by sending these uh heavy duty
lawmen I come collect stuff and talk
about stolen products and uh jail time
and all this other stuff but uh they
they don't believe that we stole
anything which we didn't and they don't
believe that I don't know if they
believe anybody really stole anything or
if it was just a an accident or whatever
but they needed the product so they
could try and they wanted the product
back so they could try and figure out
where the the hole was so they can plug
the hole is exactly what his words were
to me and he did apologize and they know
that they they took a lot of stuff that
we had paid a lot of money for and he
actually said they are gonna try and
compensate us a little by sending us
some other product and was asking me
kind of what product I liked and whatnot
so he seemed very nice

which was the coaches not being very
they're not being rude about it or
anything they were being very
and apologizing that they had to go to
drastic means by son the pinkertons on
my front door but

they are uh they are like I said asking
if they can send me some product to make
up for the loss of money so we'll see
what happens with that I'll I'll let you
guys know what happened with it um but
they did seem very nice and very laid
back about the whole thing and they just
wanted the product back so they could
try and figure out where the mistake
happened or if somebody actually did
like you know steal a box off the back of a truck or
something I don't know but I really
don't think that's what happened I think
it's just that the names were too
similar March of the machine marched the
machine aftermath somebody got them mixed up somewhere
along the line and sent out the wrong
boxes to the gentleman that I bought
from and he just wasn't in the know with
magic enough to know that it was the
wrong set so I believe that's really
what happened along the way

I did take the videos down as you've
seen and anybody who's used my footage
uh you'll probably want to take that
down uh it isn't they are saying it is
in some sort of copyright infringement
thing uh so if you've used my footage or got
screenshots with my videos or anything
you probably want to remove that from
your pages or from your sites they did
ask me to ask everybody to take that
down nobody asked my permission to use
my footage or I probably would have told
them you may not want to you know I was
uh you know uploading this stuff because
I had it in my hands but you know I I
really feel that there was no wrongdoing
on my behalf or even the gentleman
perhaps that I got over them I could be
wrong but I really don't think it was
stolen I think it was just a mistake
somewhere along the line

I no longer have the product the
pinkertons took everything to take back
to WotC so they now are in possession
of all the product they counted every
single card and every single booster
pack I don't even have any of the
wrappers or anything like that left they
took the empty boxes the empty packs
everything so I don't even have a token
to show for my for my efforts there but
um it has been a crazy ride the last few
days the Channel's blowing up quite a
bit I got I doubled my subscribers so
welcome everybody new

we'll see it'll probably be a little
less drama going on in the future I hope
uh but I love the game I love the cards
and I just I really like opening boxes and seeing
the cards and it was kind of being a
really old school because I started the
day revise came out it was really nice
to just open boxes and not know what it
was going to be in there like it was in
the old days before the internet before
YouTube we didn't have that stuff in
93-94 when the game came out we just
opened boxes and like oh look at this
new card oh look at that new card and
that was really fun I really missed
those days so it was fun to get to
relive that and actually see a new set
and not know everything about it before
it came out I know I spoiled it for
everybody else but I I really enjoyed
doing that anyways I'm trying to keep
the video short I I don't know what I've
gone over what I haven't gone over could
I recorded this video a few times
obviously because it's hard dick and
know what to say and what not to say in
this type of situation and I'm still
kind of a little flustered about
everything that happened this morning so
uh thank you guys so much for the views
and welcome new subscribers and
hopefully uh in the future things will
go a little smoother
um I don't I've never had to take a
video down before and I have released
stuff pretty early before but this one
obviously there's some extenuating
circumstances I'll let you know if
anything else arises out of that
um but

I don't think anybody did anything wrong
and I don't think Wizards of the Coast
really feels that either uh they just
they're obviously a mistake was made
somewhere along the line and they're
trying to figure out where it was as far
as I know so anyways thank you guys so
much for watching and we'll see you in
the next one uh talk to you later bye

Then starting at around 5:50 through 7:35 or so where he's reacting to comments

Spoiler: Clarifying what happened, Podcast #2

everybody that's uh commenting how oh
what a totally kick rocks or whatever
I'm a big history buff and I am very
very familiar with the history of the
pinkertons so the second they said
Pinkerton I kind of my jaw hit the
ground I was like really I guess they
were more mad than I thought they would
be it was intimidating it was a little a
little scary because my wife was also a
history buff and knows about the
pinkertons and some of the uh
uh actions they are taken in the past
uh I won't use the word atrocities even
though that's the first thing that came
to my mind anyways um I won't talk too
much about it a totally Prime Will
Conquer this new flip card there
so you know we immediately knew that
it was pretty serious dudes we were
dealing with and they were very
aggressive at the beginning
they did try and kind of force their way
in a little bit they did not actually
force their way in we didn't put a stop
to that but they were being very forceful at the
beginning and it was very intimidating I did put my
foot down and demanded some respect in my house
and told me he needed to take it back a
notch and he did so they did kind of chill out after they
realized they were not criminals we were
just a couple and I'm just a YouTuber opening
product

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

For people who want to see the original info on this, from the time:

Thread 'The OGL -- Just What's Going On?'

Jan 5, 2023

D&D fandom is in uproar again about purported upcoming changes to the Open Gaming License, and rumours are flooding social media regarding WotC's intentions to 'de-authorize' the existing Open Gaming License in favour of a new one.

What's the OGL?
The Open Gaming License is a share-a-like license created by D&D owner WotC about 20 years ago so that third parties could create material compatible with the then-3E D&D game. This allowed smaller publishers to ensure the game was supported with products which WotC could not make themselves, driving sales of the...

• Morrus
• Replies: 2,483
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

• 
• 
• 

Thread 'OGL 1.1... quote the lawyers (and link)'

Jan 5, 2023

If you know of somebody who is (or at least claims to be) a lawyer who has commented on the new OGL v1.1., put it in this thread.

If you are a lawyer, feel free to comment.

Hello, I am lawyer with a PSA: almost everyone is wrong about the OGL and SRD. Clearing up confusion.

Hello, community. Like many of you, I am a nerd. I am also a lawyer. With all the OGL controversy, I have been seeing a lot of claims on the internet, here and elsewhere, about what the OGL is and how it interacts with third party content and copyright law. Many of these claims are, in my...

www.enworld.org

• Morrus
• Replies: 92
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

• 
• 

Thread 'Statement on OGL from WotC'

Nov 22, 2022

Wizards of the Coast has made a short statement regarding the ongoing rumors surrounding OneD&D and the Open Gaming License. In a short response to Comicbook.com, the company said "We will continue to support the thousands of creators making third-party D&D content with the release of One D&D in 2024. While it is certain our Open Game License (OGL) will continue to evolve, just as it has since its inception, we're too early in the development of One D&D to give more specifics on the OGL or System Reference Document (SRD) at this time."

...

• Morrus
• Replies: 280
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

• 

Thread 'OGL: What Are The Publishers Saying [UPDATED]'

Jan 10, 2023

While many publishers are still holding frantic meetings and consulting lawyers, and others are still in 'wait and see' mode, some have already indicated how the new draft OGL v1.1 affects them and their plans going foward. Many eyes are on the larger companies, such as Pathfinder producer Paizo, which has yet to make any public statement.

First off, here's the position from us here at EN Publishing (read more at the link):

Like everybody else in the Open Gaming community, we at EN Publishing have been scrambling to understand what WotC's leaked plans...

• Morrus
• Replies: 468
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

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• 
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Thread 'What's All This About The OGL Going Away?'

Nov 19, 2022

This last week I've seen videos, tweets, and articles all repeating an unsourced rumour that the OGL (Open Gaming License) will be going away with the advent of OneD&D, and that third party publishers would have no way of legally creating compatible material. I wanted to write an article clarifying some of these terms.

I've seen articles claiming (and I quote) that "players would be unable to legally publish homebrew content" and that WotC may be "outlawing third-party homebrew content". These claims need clarification.

What's the Open Gaming License? It was...

• Morrus
• Replies: 1,073
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

• 
• 

Thread 'Ryan Dancey -- Hasbro Cannot Deauthorize OGL'

Jan 5, 2023

I reached out to the architect of the original Open Gaming License, former VP of Wizard of the Coast, Ryan Dancey, and asked his opinion about the current plan by WotC to 'deauthorize' the current OGL in favour of a new one.

He responded as follows:

Yeah my public opinion is that Hasbro does not have the power to deauthorize a version of the OGL. If that had been a power that we wanted to reserve for Hasbro, we would have enumerated it in the license. I am on record numerous places in email and blogs and interviews saying that the license could never be revoked.

Ryan also maintains...

• Morrus
• Replies: 660
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

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• 

Thread 'OGL-Gate & Mainstream Media: The Guardian Weighs In'

Jan 13, 2023

With The Guardian picking up the story this morning, here's a list of media outlets covering the Open Gaming Licence controversy.

The initial story came from Gizmodo/iO9, which recieved a leaked copy of the OGL v1.1., and YouTube channel RollForCombat.

• The Guardian: ‘People are leaving the game’: Dungeons & Dragons fans revolt against new restrictions
• Vice: Dungeons and Dragons Is Jeopardizing Its Greatest Strength: Its Ubiquity
• Electronic Frontier Foundation: Beware the Gifts of Dragons: How D&D’s Open Gaming License...

• Morrus
• Replies: 102
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

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• 
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Thread 'WotC Walks Back Some OGL Changes, But Not All'

Jan 13, 2023

Wizards of the Coast has finally made a statement regarding the OGL. The statement says that the leaked version was a draft designed to solicit feedback and that they are walking back some problematic elements, but don't address others--most notably that the current OGL v1.0a is still being deauthorized.

• Non-TTRPG mediums such as "educational and charitable campaigns, livestreams, cosplay, VTT-uses" are unaffected by the new license.
• The 'we can use your content for any reason' provision is going away
• The royalties aspect is also being removed
• Content previously...

• Morrus
• Replies: 1,433
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

• 

Thread 'So, who can 'authorize' and 'de-authorize' the OGL?'

Jan 13, 2023

This is not legal advice. I am not a lawyer. This is just for fun.

The only reference to authorisation in the OGL v1.0a is in s9:

9. Updating the License: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. You may use any authorized version of this License to copy, modify and distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under any version of this License.

• The word 'authorized' appears nowhere else in the document, not even in the 'Definitions' section.
• Nowhere does it say who can authorize the license, or how...

• Morrus
• Replies: 51
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

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Thread 'Let's be clear about the motives behind the original OGL'

Jan 13, 2023

WotC told us 20 yrs ago that OGL could not be rescinded (we've seen the FAQs, statements from those who wrote it, that's what they told us) so we all agreed to not make other games but to make stuff for their game. Now they are reneging. Legality aside, they are not a reliable business partner.

Ryan Dancey -- Hasbro Cannot Deauthorize OGL

I reached out to the architect of the original Open Gaming License, former VP of Wizard of the Coast, Ryan Dancey, and asked his opinion about the current plan by WotC to 'deauthorize' the current OGL in favour of a new one. He responded as follows: Yeah my public opinion is that Hasbro does...

www.enworld.org

A hundred companies would have spent the last 20 years developing their own competing games if they'd known that WotC would simply change their minds 20 years later. Who knows what the industry would look...

• Morrus
• Replies: 52
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

• 
• 

Thread 'So WHY Didn't The OGL Contain The Word 'Irrevocable'?'

Jan 15, 2023

Whether or not the Open Game License v1.0a is revocable is one of the main things being argued about during this whole OGL-gate crisis, with lawyers firmly stating opinions on both sides of the issue. We all know that Ryan Dancey, the OGL's 'architect' (along with IP lawyer Brian Lewis, who was WotC's in-house counsel at the time) firmly believes that the license is irrevocable--in his words, "If that had been a power that we wanted to reserve for Hasbro, we would have enumerated it in the license."

But why didn't it just say so? On the face of it, including that...

• Morrus
• Replies: 95
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

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Thread 'My thoughts on the new OGL v1.2 draft'

Jan 20, 2023

It's better. It's certainly better. But it's still not good. These are suggestions I would make for their feedback survey.

Revocability. It says it's irrevocable, but it's not -- while WotC can terminate your license at any time (they just say your content is 'harmful' or 'obscene' at their discretion, and you cannot even challenge them about it), it is still revocable at their whim. They can put an OGL publisher out of business with the flick of a pen.

The key phrase is -- "We have the sole right to decide what conduct or content is hateful, and you covenant that you will...

• Morrus
• Replies: 309
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

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Thread 'OGL v1.2 Survey Feedback: 'Hasn't Hit The Mark''

Jan 27, 2023

WotC has shared some of the (still ongoing) survey feedback following the release of the Open Game License v1.2 draft last week.

We want to thank the community for continuing to share their OGL 1.2 feedback with us. Already more than 10,000 of you have responded to the survey, which will close on February 3.

So far, survey responses have made it clear that this draft of OGL 1.2 hasn't hit the mark for our community. Please continue to share your thoughts.

Thanks to direct feedback from you and our virtual tabletop partners it's also clear the draft VTT policy...

• Morrus
• Replies: 206
• Forum: Publishing Business & Licensing

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• 

WotC Thread '5E Designer Mike Mearls Talks About The OGL Crisis'

Feb 3, 2025

D&D historian Ben Riggs recently conducted an interview with Mike Mearls, who worked at Wizards of the Coast from 2005 to until he was laid off in 2023. Part of the interview touched on the OGL crisis back in 2022, with Mearls indicating that WotC was caught by surprise by the backlash when they revealed that they intended to rescind the Open Gaming License. They also talk about how WotC felt 'stabbed in the face' (Ben's words, not Mike's) when the draft OGL 2.0 was leaked by a partner who had been sent the document in...

• Morrus
• Replies: 184
• Forum: *Dungeons & Dragons

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[Remathilis]

The word of the day is sadonecroequinphilia. Look it up.

 

[payn]

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The word of the day is sadonecroequinphilia. Look it up.

Well, that was anticlimactic.

 

[Remathilis]

View attachment 438460

Well, that was anticlimactic.

You gotta break it up sado- necro- equine -philia

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

You gotta break it up sado- necro- equine -philia

I feel like you're beating a dead horse here.

 

[jayoungr]

I wanted to create one thread where people can discuss to their hearts content about the OGL changes proposed by WOTC in late 2020.

In December of 2020 WotC sent a proposed new version of the OGL to third-party publishers requiring them to report their gross revenue from D&D-related products. Anyone earning over $1 million would owe WotC a percentage of their profits. This clashed with the original OGL, which allowed perpetual use of the core rules at no charge and without oversite. The new version of the OGL was leaked in January of 2021.

Are we talking about the same OGL controversy? The big one that I remember started in late 2022 and continued into early 2023.