D&D General OGL, Pinkertons and WOTC Oh My!

[DEFCON 1]

there would be a lot less complaints if the people talking about how WotC did nothing wrong would not constantly talk about that and rush to their defense at the slightest lack of praise for WotC in a post. Most complaints I see (and all of mine) are in response to that

The people complaining don't get free rein to complain without response. Especially in a forum dedicated to the fans of the D&D they are complaining about. To think otherwise is absurd.

You want to complain about Wizards of the Coast and D&D without people telling you why your complaints are able to be defended against? Find a forum dedicated to that. Then you can complain to your heart's content. Otherwise... if you are going to complain, then you have to accept people telling you why you are wrong. The same way we have accepted that no matter what WotC does, there will be a few to a bunch of people showing up to say why that was exactly the WRONG thing to do.

 

[mamba]

The people complaining don't get free rein to complain without response.

If you read what I wrote, you will notice that you are reversing the order of events

 

[DEFCON 1]

If you read what I wrote, you will notice that you are reversing the order of events

Because the idea that people are defending WotC for no reason whatsoever without first being compelled to by the "slightest lack of praise" is silly.

None of us here talking about this game we love on a forum dedicated to this game we love are just arbitrarily deciding to defend WotC's honor against nothing, LOL. What would be the point? Unless of course you are considering our praise of D&D and the work WotC does to make the game to be us "defending" them? But if that's the case... then we have every right to because this is a forum specifically made FOR that reason.

 

[Umbran]

So you were not being truthful when you said this?

Mod note:
A few years ago, I had a cat who played a particular game.
The game was, "How far can I go teasing that I'm going to knock this off the table, before you stop me from knocking it off the table."

You seem to be playing basically the same game - How close can you get to calling someone a liar before a moderator comes in and stops you.

Honestly, for several of you here, it is time to ask yourselves how severely you want to lose a game of chicken with the civility rules.

 

[mamba]

Because the idea that people are defending WotC for no reason whatsoever without first being compelled to by the "slightest lack of praise" is silly.

it’s a slight exaggeration, but only slight.

Case in point a thread from this week there someone posted that people worried about WotC moving to digital have nothing to fear since nothing has changed the last four years. I responded with saying that this was only true because their attempts at change have failed, namely the OGL and Sigil. That was enough to start the familiar chorus of ‘jeez, do you always have to drag out the OGL, will you ever get over it’ and ‘WotC did nothing wrong, it was just a proposal and they withdrew it’.

Pavlov’s dogs are no better at reacting to bells than some posters are to someone posting ‘OGL’ regardless of whatever else they write

None of us here talking about this game we love on a forum dedicated to this game we love are just arbitrarily deciding to defend WotC's honor against nothing, LOL. What would be the point?

some are, you would have to ask them about the point, I don’t see it either

 

[AlViking]

it’s a slight exaggeration, but only slight.

Case in point a thread from this week there someone posted that people worried about WotC moving to digital have nothing to fear since nothing has changed the last four years. I responded with saying that this was only true because their attempts at change have failed, namely the OGL and Sigil. That was enough to start the familiar chorus of ‘jeez, do you always have to drag out the OGL, will you ever get over it’ and ‘WotC did nothing wrong, it was just a proposal and they withdrew it’.

Pavlov’s dogs are no better at reacting to bells than some posters are to someone posting ‘OGL’ regardless of whatever else they write


some are, you would have to ask them about the point, I don’t see it either

I was the "someone". I was not the person who first brought up the OGL I was responding to another poster.

What I meant (and clarified multiple times) was that no ongoing business practices changed because they realized their mistake based on the response and withdrew the changes to the OGL.

 

[mamba]

I was the "someone". I was not the person who first brought up the OGL I was responding to another poster.

yes, I brought it up as an example of things WotC tried to change but that failed, along with Sigil, as I wrote.

As far as I am concerned that is a perfectly valid example to bring up in this context. I was not saying anything like ‘why would you ever trust WotC after the OGL’ or anything like that, I just pointed out that nothing having changed is not due to a lack of trying.

Despite this, the immediate, reflexive reaction was ‘must you always drag out the OGL, get over it’, instead of engaging with the actual argument that their attempts at change had failed rather than there not being any

The thread was dragged into a new OGL debate because my argument contained that term, regardless of me not saying anything else about it, just mentioned it and Sigil as examples. So yeah, that thread was dragged into that argument by the people jumping to WotC’s defense over the OGL when there was no accusation to begin with.

What I meant (and clarified multiple times) was that no ongoing business practices changed because they realized their mistake based on the response and withdrew the changes to the OGL.

You are doing it yet again, someone (me) has a sentence with the term OGL in it, and right away you go to how WotC did a-ok in your view when the discussion was not about that until you make it about that

 

[AlViking]

...

You are doing it yet again, someone (me) has a sentence with the term OGL in it, and right away you go to how WotC did a-ok in your view when the discussion was not about that until you bring it up

You stated that I brought it up first. I did not. I've never said once that what they did was a-ok. The proposed OGL change was a stupid mistake. I am okay with the result only because they backed off and put the SRD into CC. You are free to respond to my opinion, as I am free to respond to yours

 

[mamba]

You stated that I brought it up first. I did not.

no, I did not say that. I said you made it about the OGL crisis when it wasn’t. No one was accusing WotC of anything

I now twice said that my reply contained the term OGL without mentioning anyone else bringing it up first and without me having made it about the OGL. It was an example just like Sigil.

Case in point a thread from this week there someone posted that people worried about WotC moving to digital have nothing to fear since nothing has changed the last four years. I responded with saying that this was only true because their attempts at change have failed, namely the OGL and Sigil.

yes, I brought it up as an example of things WotC tried to change but that failed, along with Sigil, as I wrote.

 

[AlViking]

no, I did not say that. I said you made it about the OGL crisis when it wasn’t. No one was accusing WotC of anything

I now twice said that my reply contained the term OGL without mentioning anyone else bringing it up first and without me having made it about the OGL. It was an example just like Sigil.

You claimed I said WOTC did nothing wrong. I did not and never have. That's all I have to say on this.