D&D General PCs vs Ships

[touc]

We're in a pirate campaign, and I want to keep the "Age of Sail" feeling alive (e.g. the wealthier nations are transitioning to cannons, etc.), but D&D PCs can throw that out very quickly. Here's our most recent example that's vexing me as I expect it'll repeat, and repeat...

8th-level PCs now have their own ship and see a enemy pirate ship. Plunder is a part of our campaign so they decide they're going to take it. They all have access to water breathing and swim speeds. They just sally over to the enemy ship (able to swim faster than a ship under sail) underwater and hop aboard, obliterate the Captain and call it a day. Given what 8th level PCs bring, they had enough area damage to obliterate the hapless riggers and swabs that constitute most of a typical pirate crew. For verisimilitude, I'm not going to have every ship stacked with equal level NPCs, that's just silly. They didn't need their pirate crew to do a darn thing.

I have the feeling they're going to repeat this tactic until the DM comes up with some reason it shouldn't always work. We have an entire ruleset (minigame) for upgrading ships, improving weapons on the ship, ship to ship combat, etc., but if the PCs can simply swim over and slaughter crews, there's no reason to improve their ship or adventure to get plunder to upgrade, or use ship to ship combat. In fact, they've said that's what they're doing next: find a better ship and upgrade that way. Note: my players are pretty good about avoiding cheese, but I've given them no reason to think this is cheesy.

So in a fantasy setting, besides the occasional bad-arse ship (like a pirate lord or pirate hunter ship), what's the incentive? I'm certain over the centuries of ships in a world of wizards and druids, someone has dealt with this before and done something. Should most ships (besides the poorest of them) come with some default wards that keep sahuagin from holing your hull, or PCs from swimming over and hopping aboard? Also, pirates didn't just ship-hop to upgrade, and there was a reason why. What could I go with? Crew superstition, refusal to abandon the ship they know?

 

[jasper]

Ghost of Saltmarsh does have combat round speed. But it also has travel pace speed. What is the pc travel pace per hour?
1. Can the pcs make in range to start combat rounds.
2. Look of 3rd party OR 1E rules.
3.Consider Ghosts as the basic average crew and ship. Better shipmates make better boats which make more speed.
4. Fantasy counters if ship has x level of mages / support.
Random ideas
Magic Mouth is 30 feet range 2 should cover any hull.
Watch kneels hauls the boat x number of minutes.
Druid spell which repels marine, sea life ?

 

[AlViking]

I don't assume ships in a magical world would work exactly like they do in real life. Every attack will eventually be countered by defenses that are at least somewhat effective.

So perhaps glyphs of warding on the side of the ships are common, steel nets that can be deployed to trap enemies trying to board the ship may be common. Specialists or ships made to look normal that are actually well armed that know how to counter these tactics are sent out. Maybe they have last resort defenses, like unleashing a monster of their own. Ships start making deals with sahuagin for protection - or even a dragon turtle.

I never assume the PCs are the only people with access to the options the players have. Even successful pirates, or perhaps overly successful pirates in particular, are putting a big target on their backs.

 

[Mecheon]

I think you are past the part where your average pirate ships are a threat and more needing to politic with the big guys, potentially even other crews paying this one off for operating in similar areas. This is more sounding like its getting to the sea monster or mystic supernatural crew levels, "the captain is just some guy" is no longer a valid threat and they'll be run over.

This should be where you've got Scrags and giants working the boat, deepspawn from the depths, or dragons as wanna-be pirate captains with aquatic wyverns picking off anything that falls into the ocean, and flying up to snack on an enemy or two when not enough falls overboard

 

[Koloth]

Hungry sea life? Are the PCs swimming in full armor? Armor and swimming generally don't mix. Unarmored PCs might seem a tasty snack to several varieties of RPG sea life.
Maybe the targeted ship has invested in some anti-magic protections. Your PCs get close to the ship and all of a sudden that water breathing quits working.
Trained mimics on the side of the ship. Surprise!
So about that targeted ship....Turns out many of that ship's crew were using fly and invisibility to take the PC's ship.

 

[touc]

Ghost of Saltmarsh does have combat round speed. But it also has travel pace speed. What is the pc travel pace per hour?...

I'm using "Fire as she bears" (Age of Sail, non high fantasy, very realistic) rules for ships, but ultimately my PCs all (with class features and magical items) have a swim speed of 30' minimum (but they can "dash" every round to double that with no limits, which eliminates the speed ships of that time under sail had of roughly 4-6 miles per hour).

Maybe the targeted ship has invested in some anti-magic protections. Your PCs get close to the ship and all of a sudden that water breathing quits working.

This seems an interesting option that got me thinking of 3E/Pathfinder wherein mages developed a counter to "scry and fry" (spy, then teleport in for the easy kill) in the form of a Teleport Trap. Cast Teleport within the protected area and it shuffles you off to a legit, but probably lethal, landing zone. Anyone with coin would invest in a particular type of enchanted wood that kills off water breathing and swim speeds within a particular zone? They need to counter races, like the sahuagin, that can "hole" your hull and this seems to work. Explaining why the costs are so low is another matter, other than supply and demand. Everyone wants its, so it becomes more common. Only the most arrogant or poor would not enchant their hull.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I have the same issue.

I started with the rules from Ghosts of Saltmarsh, but then completely redid them into effectively my own ship to ship combat rules.

Then, when the party finds the pirate ship they were pursuing, instead of using that system I made to be used, weakening the ship with canonfire until it was either slowed significantly or dead in the water before boarding...they all swam or flew over there to fight the crew normally.

Now, they did it because they were attempting to rescue people and didn't want to risk accidentally harming them. I did tell them that it is extremely unlikely they are going to accidentally shoot a canonball through the hull and hit a passenger below decks. I could probably have told them that that result could only come from a "DMs choice" type of critical hit, and I'm not going to choose it, but my players are good role-players, and that OOC assurance might not be useful given that it seems unsafe IC. They also didn't want to risk their own crew getting hurt, which is way more likely to happen.

Fortunately, at the end of the adventure they should have another chance where they find themselves participating in a large scale battle and aren't worried about passenger safety.

Trying to come up with some reason to discourage just magicing over to the ship without making the world more magically infused than I want is tricky.

 

[Sorinth]

Even with a swim speed why exactly are the PCs able to move faster then a ship under sail?

 

[Mecheon]

Even with a swim speed why exactly are the PCs able to move faster then a ship under sail?

A realistic low-fantasy mechanic really isn't designed to handle high fantasy D&D characters, I'd summise

 

[Tonguez]

1 Ships were treated as living things with their own moods and temprements and even their own "Souls". Crews bonded with the "old girl" and knew when she was feeling "happy" or "stubborn" or "angry" depending on how she handled in the water.

So lean in to that and treat any major ship as a magical creature that the Captain needs to get attuned to. Any scoundrel trying to command a ship without being attuned to it is just asking for trouble- at best the ship is going to be uncooperative and at worst they might be virtually haunted.
You might even want to make the Ships Figurehead an Intelligent Item who PCs can directly interact with.

2 You can add armour to the Hull and Keel, Nets below the waterline and spikes on the hull that make trying to board from the water difficult. Maybe even set up harpoon defences designed to keep sahuagin and seas serpents at bay. Even a underwater wall of force that forces swimmers to move out before that can go up.

3. Dont forget that the water itself is a hazard - use the pressure and drowning rules, add hull clinging riptide horrors or sharks that defend the ship from attackers